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Old 05-29-2017, 01:54 PM   #1
Edb 46 er
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Looking for a hiking partner for the Upper Benson to Piseco section? Would like to do the entire NPT in sections this summer.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:52 PM   #2
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June 23rd, my buddy and I will start at Piseco (Cold Stream Bridge) in the afternoon. Probably won't make Spruce Lake lean-tos; rather pitch a tent at Falls Stream or Jessup River. We're heading through to BML or better..
You're welcome to accompany us.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:02 PM   #3
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Fall Stream has better tenting options than Jessup River, FYI. Remember to follow the 150 foot rule- there are no designated tent sites at either location. (Just because it looks like someone camped at a site doesn't mean it's legal! )
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:25 PM   #4
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Fall Stream has better tenting options than Jessup River, FYI. Remember to follow the 150 foot rule- there are no designated tent sites at either location. (Just because it looks like someone camped at a site doesn't mean it's legal! )

You may be right, but I've heard from very informed sources that Fall Stream IS a legal site, just not marked yet. If anyone wants to stay there, best to check with the local ranger.

Icehouse Landing on Cedar River Flow is another one. It's listed on the maps and in the UMP, but there are no "camp here" discs.

Just checked on the DEC map, Fall Stream and Jessup ARE designated.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_for...mapwcanada.pdf
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:48 PM   #5
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You may be right, but I've heard from very informed sources that Fall Stream IS a legal site, just not marked yet. If anyone wants to stay there, best to check with the local ranger.

Icehouse Landing on Cedar River Flow is another one. It's listed on the maps and in the UMP, but there are no "camp here" discs.

Just checked on the DEC map, Fall Stream and Jessup ARE designated.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_for...mapwcanada.pdf
Unfortunately, I don't think that map is accurate. It seems they just took the same GIS shapefile that appears on the SLIM and used that to generate the map. And that information in turn was taken from the APA databases, and is many areas an "inventory of campsites in existence," not a list of officially designated sites.

EDIT: Take a look at the rest of that map. It shows other errors that also appear on the SLIM. A designated campsite on the north shore of Mud Lake? I've spent a significant amount of time back there and never even saw an established site there, let alone anything to designate. A designated site on the Sucker Brook Trail? The same trail that is currently abandoned? Not to mention the site at West Lake, which I assume means the clearing where the Ranger Station once stood, because there's no other established campsites there. That's definitely not a designated site, either. A marked and maintained trail to Horn Lake? With designated sites on it? Anyone who's hiked that trail in the past 15 years knows that to show it on a map as a maintained trail is laughable. Showing the old portage trails between Pillsbury, Whitney, and Cedar Lakes as maintained trails? I know that they get some informal maintenance but they definitely aren't even close to the same class of trail as the NPT or the French Louie Loop in terms of how easy they are to follow.

The map is also missing 2 of the 4 actually designated sites at Cedar Lakes.

It's pretty clear that they just took the old, outdated, and incorrect GIS information that they had on hand, used it to make a map, said "good enough" and pushed it through to be published on the website. Ergo, the fact that this map shows sites at Fall Stream and the Jessup River can't be taken as proof that there those sites are indeed meant to be designated sites.

EDIT 2: Also, they misspelled "Inset" as "Inlet."

EDIT 3: Actually, they didn't misspell it... the arrow is pointing towards the town of Inlet but appears also to be pointing towards the inset.

Last edited by DSettahr; 06-07-2017 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:17 PM   #6
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Good to know. The site on the Jessup is mentioned in the description for the area, the Fall Stream site is not.
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:06 PM   #7
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Just curious...if you purchase a map so you can select "approved" campsites and the map is incorrect, do you have any recourse should a ranger decide to hit you up with a fine? It's not everyone who has DSettahr's knowledge of these things.

Until next time...be well.

snapper
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:35 PM   #8
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Just curious...if you purchase a map so you can select "approved" campsites and the map is incorrect, do you have any recourse should a ranger decide to hit you up with a fine? It's not everyone who has DSettahr's knowledge of these things.

Until next time...be well.

snapper
Know the regs and what qualifies as a designated campsite
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41282.html
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:05 PM   #9
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Just curious...if you purchase a map so you can select "approved" campsites and the map is incorrect, do you have any recourse should a ranger decide to hit you up with a fine? It's not everyone who has DSettahr's knowledge of these things.

Until next time...be well.

snapper

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that if you camped at a spot that was marked as designated on a DEC map, it would be a valid defense. After all, you acted in good faith and it's their fault the map is wrong.

I know of several sites that are designated (asking a ranger), but the DEC didn't get around to putting up a "camp here" disc.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:05 PM   #10
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I just found a ride at last to Upper Benson for this Sunday! No partner but I am sure people will be out. Hiking to Piseco and then hitting up the Oxbow Inn for a cold one. Should take me until Tuesday or late Tuesday afternoon to do the section comfortably. Hopefully, my ride back home will be there to pick me up.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:33 PM   #11
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Just a clarification; I'm well aware of the 150' rule for establishing a site but I know there are lots of folks out there who look at a website, take their phone and go from there. It's more those folks that I wonder about. That being said, I've encountered situations where some rangers are OK with tents right alongside a lean-to where others aren't. I would hope, for the uneducated, that if they have a conversation (not a shouting match) with a Ranger that they'd be given the chance to move their site without receiving a fine.

Until next time...be well.

snapper
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Old 06-09-2017, 02:59 PM   #12
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That being said, I've encountered situations where some rangers are OK with tents right alongside a lean-to where others aren't. I would hope, for the uneducated, that if they have a conversation (not a shouting match) with a Ranger that they'd be given the chance to move their site without receiving a fine.

snapper
Absolutely! A lot of rangers will be ok with camping near a LT if it's black fly season, the LT is full and you drove 6 hours to get there, you're not going to have an additional fire ring and you're not leaving your empties, etc.
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:13 PM   #13
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Just a clarification; I'm well aware of the 150' rule for establishing a site but I know there are lots of folks out there who look at a website, take their phone and go from there. It's more those folks that I wonder about. That being said, I've encountered situations where some rangers are OK with tents right alongside a lean-to where others aren't. I would hope, for the uneducated, that if they have a conversation (not a shouting match) with a Ranger that they'd be given the chance to move their site without receiving a fine.

Until next time...be well.

snapper
never heard of regs stating cant have tents near leanto's
even looking now only see stipulation that leanto's must be shared,
no mention of tent rule
regardless in such scenerios comes down to discretion of the ranger at the time,
right or wrong its his call,
being a jerk does not help him decide in your favor
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:11 PM   #14
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It's a gray area. It's posted in the Catskills, but not so much up here. Like you said, discretion of the ranger.

Last edited by dundee; 06-10-2017 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:06 PM   #15
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The rule stating that no tents are allowed within 150 feet of a leanto is on the DEC's Primitive Camping page: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41282.html

"Tents are not allowed inside lean-tos. Around lean-tos, camp at least 150 feet from the lean-to unless there is a "Camp Here" marker."
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:53 PM   #16
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The rule stating that no tents are allowed within 150 feet of a leanto is on the DEC's Primitive Camping page: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41282.html

"Tents are not allowed inside lean-tos. Around lean-tos, camp at least 150 feet from the lean-to unless there is a "Camp Here" marker."
Thanks for that
On general camping rules page they tend to leave that out
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html

Camping is prohibited within 150 feet of any road, trail, spring, stream, pond or other body of water except at areas designated by a "camp here" disk.


Lean-tos are available in many areas on a first come first served basis. Lean-tos cannot be used exclusively and must be shared with other campers.
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:20 PM   #17
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Thanks for that
On general camping rules page they tend to leave that out
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html

Camping is prohibited within 150 feet of any road, trail, spring, stream, pond or other body of water except at areas designated by a "camp here" disk.

And lean-tos are on a trail. Therefore you have to go the 150'.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:00 AM   #18
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Heading out today to Upper Benson to Piseco Lake. I've decided to make it a three day trip instead for a more comfortable experience overall, might need a day of rest. So, wish me luck and maybe I will see some of you out there!
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:33 AM   #19
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Edb 46 er

Good luck. I look forward to hearing more when you get back. [edit: oops, I see you are back. enjoying our posts now]

jh
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:44 PM   #20
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Edb 46 er

Good luck. I look forward to hearing more when you get back. [edit: oops, I see you are back. enjoying our posts now]

jh
Thanks!
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