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#21 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
My guess is that gas production will end up being - like most things - neither a disaster nor a panacea. As far as fossil fuels go, natural gas is the most environmentally friendly, and ultimately I think it would be best for it to be produced in our own backyard where we have plenty of people keeping a very close and skeptical eye on production and its consequences. |
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#22 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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SP NYP - Thanks for the link. Anybody see any info on whether or not he had any kind of analysis of the water for the type of contamination?
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#23 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 904
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#24 | |
spring fever
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester area
Posts: 2,236
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Well, for a little perspective, even these admittedly left wing environmental groups aren't saying "no drilling at all". They just want proper regulation, full disclosure, and some basic research and fact finding before we let these companies punch holes every square mile and start pumping stuff down there, some of which is going to come back up and require disposal. It's hard to be encouraged when the contents of this fluid are a secret.
the fact is, we don't know what they're pumping down there, and we don't know what's coming back up, and we don't know how to dispose of it. And no offense (really), but a guy on a forum saying "it's just guar gum, like in salad dressing, plus some other stuff", doesn't count as full disclosure. It's when industrial interests resist regulation and disclosure that I start to wonder what they're hiding. Got nothing to hide? Good, then open your books and let us monitor the process. Heres what I think the relevant quote is: Quote:
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He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams. |
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#25 | |
One foot in front of the other
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,192
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#26 |
spring fever
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester area
Posts: 2,236
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huh?
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He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams. |
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#27 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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Hobbitling - Could have saved myself a lot of time if I had just tagged these.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complet..._and_gas_wells) This is not new technology, my experiences were in the late 70's and early 80's, much of the info was in petroleum engineering texts, including the chemistry. There are a number of contractors who do this work: BJ Services, Schlumberger had a division that did this, there were others. They compete for the work and are a little reluctant to just give up their design and proprietary info to their competitors. It's been too long for me to remember details as far as the additives. Some of their marketing materials talked about the products used and they sure listed everything they sold on their bills. Oil companies in areas newly developed don't immediately share a lot of the info and their contractors respect that, they take all of the risk to make the investment to drill the wells, could be a a few million on some wells, and the info will help them determine where they will lease or drill next. There are a lot of oil companies competing for the acreage and where to drill next and you don't give that up, any more than Macy's told Gimbels. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,006
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#29 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,060
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Food manufacturers are required to list all the ingredients in their products, yet there still seems to be plenty of competition in that industry... and just like the food industry, surely there's more to creating these concoctions than just an ingredients list? Relative quantities, preparation, method of use, etc?
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#30 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,006
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#31 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
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Quote:
![]() In matters of public health and the environment, however, I think disclosure and oversight are reasonable. |
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#32 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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Colden - The general information is out in the open. The chemistry is the chemistry. Might have to look for it. But even Heinz doesn't list all of the "spices and flavorings" or their proportions or the specifics when they come up with a new process, and Coke will never disclose what is in the syrup. Once you disclose things like the volumes, depths, pressures, etc used in a specific job, you've told your competitor service companies what they generally need to do to design a competitive process. You've also given away info about your customer's well information that ends up in the hands of their competitors. I don't know what New York's process is, but we had to file completion reports with the regulatory authorities when the well was done, describing what was done. If the well was an infill well, within an established field, disclosure is generally not a problem. But if your drilling a step-out well, away from what was thought to be the original trend or a wildcat, away from any established production, or in a new region where development is spotty, you drilled the well "tight," meaning no one, contractors, drilling rig crew,... breathed a word about your well until you released the info. If I recall correctly, you could file an interim completion report for a limited time indicating the well was "tight." The purpose was to give you time to evaluate additional prospects and make your deals.
Holdstrong - Hopefully, the operators (producers) are reporting whatever the regulations require. If they are not they should be held accountable. If the regulations don't require enough information to satisfy the agency's information needs, change the regulations. If you change the regulations in a manner where it becomes easier for a producer to do business somewhere else, be thankful for the cheap sweaters. ![]() ![]() |
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#33 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,060
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Quote:
All I know is that I have a well, and I would sure want to know what is being injected into the same ground my water comes out of. If it means I have to pay a few bucks more to heat my house, so be it. |
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#34 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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Colden - I understand the concern. We rely on the govt to understand the science and develop regs for what has to be disclosed, and while I haven't done any oil and gas work in NY, I've never known NY to be a slackard about writing regulations. I don't have a dog in this fight. Not every non-disclosure means something sinister is going on. Most of the big contractors have strict confidentiality requirements for their people and will never talk about a customer's business, they leave it to the customer/producer. Not justifying the practice, just explaining why they do it.
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#35 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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Hobbitling - Colden - I hit wikipedia for the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_gum and googled Brady sand and came up with this:http://www.halliburton.com/public/pe...Web/H03562.pdf The basic info is out there in the public domain. Sorry I can't be more exhaustive. Gotta get to work.
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#36 | |
One foot in front of the other
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,192
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#37 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washingtonville, NY
Posts: 255
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Help!! Dick!! Help!! Hobbittling, quite appropriately, challenges one of my posts. In an effort to repair my honor, (and to share some info with Colden46) I spent 5 minutes Googling and Wikipedi-ing, came up with 4 reference links, which I cut and pasted to a new post, one of which included the dreaded “H-word.” Our heretofore vigilant MODERATOR, throws me under the bus and into the epicenter of “That Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.”
![]() I was trying to show them a picture and a description of SAND. I’ve held it in my hands, I’ve rolled it between my fingers, I wrote checks for millions of pounds of it. I don’t know what else I can do. ![]() If we are going to have a conspiracy, can we at least have one that has something for everybody?…like… The Great Adirondack Conspiracy Did you know?...The Crown Point Bridge really isn’t broke…. It was closed….By the CIA….To stop an attack on the Adirondacks, by a small, but dedicated, band of space invaders, hidden at a secret camp, located in the remote reaches of the dark and foreboding Green Mountains. They were sent here, diverted from Area 51, by Emporer Mork and Queen Mindy, the maternal grandparents of the alien love-child of John Edwards, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men (and aliens) are created equal, on the tarmac of LAX, during a haircut, in retaliation for the quashing of the planned nuptials by his running mate. This was not their first attempt. The first attack was planned and directed, based upon outdated and inept intelligence, by their evil vice-president. It was thwarted when their submarine, disguised as a green dinosaur, was spotted by a patriotic, but vigilant, (and seriously over the limit) 7 year-old, who was on Bulwagga Bay, market fishing for perch for a Canadian cat food company. The Proof….is in an aluminum Halliburton briefcase. Stolen from Howie Mandel. (And you thought those were earth women.) The briefcase was hidden by Karl Rove in a box of papers, under Hillary Clinton’s bed, where they remain. The entire black operation was financed out of a secret fund, it had to be created in such a manner as to protect an incumbent governor facing a tough re-election campaign, so that the ultimate costs were largely borne by his upstate residents, thereby protecting his downstate constituencies. (You didn’t really think trout stamps were for trout.) As our beloved Blue Line faces its darkest hour……… Where, oh where……….is Redhawk? Have I left anybody out? ![]() |
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#38 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 904
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I knew that trout stamp sounded 'fishy'
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#39 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,060
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#40 | |
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