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  • PBW Spitfire or Swift ADK 13.6

    I have done a search and looked for comparisons but have not turned up much.

    I need some help. I have been building strip canoes and kayaks for over 30 years. Built my first in high school. I am finally giving in and looking for a light weight pack canoe that I wouldn't mind dragging around the ADK and Canada without having to refinish it when i get home.

    I live in PA but have retired and really enjoy getting out on my own or with a buddy for a few days. Ive seen and paddled the Swift 13.6 and really like the seat and the responsiveness. I don't have any experience with the Spitfire
    other than watching one paddle by a couple times. Does anyone have any experience with both canoes?

    I really would like to hear your thoughts. My plan is to get one tis coming spring.
    Wooden Builder
    sigpic

  • #2
    Mr builder,
    Not to try to dissuade you from buying a production boat but...
    If you can build strippers, you certainly can build a composite hull that rivals those production boats. And at a fraction of the cost. Last winter I built a carbon copy of my stripped Kite (14'6" and kinda beamy) that came in at a disappointing 29 lbs, 4 lbs over my expectations and calculations. My next composite will surely be lighter.

    WRT your question of Spitfire vs Swift 13.6, I'm no help at all.

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't help you compare boats but St Regis Canoe Outfitters had some used Spitfires at their end of season sale last month. Might be an option to save a little bit of money...

      I bought a Rapidfire last summer and no regrets at all.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you like the Swift, don't overthink it. It's a nice boat. I tried one and it seemed very fast and seaworthy. They have excellent build quality as well.

        PBW are nice, but sometimes for people out of the area it's hard to actually try them. It's one of the reasons I don't own one though I might like it. It's a real chore to get up there to demo one. Swift has a great dealer network which really helps for sales.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a PBW Rapidfire that I use mostly for personal race training when I cannot otherwise train with my multi-seat canoe race team. I have a high rail mounted seat so that I can paddle it aggressively with a single blade (not a double blade because it is a canoe, not a kayak). I do also enjoy it very much as a responsive backcountry recreational cruiser as well, and it can easily handle all the packed gear I need for long multiple overnight trips. Not as light or as easy to carry through deep woods as my Hornbeck, but the RF handles better and is much faster in open water.
          Last edited by Wldrns; 11-21-2017, 03:35 PM.
          "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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          • #6
            Where in PA are you? Are you thinking of the SpitFire 13 or 12? I have the 12 footer and would be more than happy to let you give it a try.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wooden: How much do you weigh and what are you going to use the canoe for? I weigh 200 lbs and stopped in at Racquette River Outfitters to look at the Adk 13.6 which I thought might be a good choice for me for some overnight (2 -3 day solo) trips. I was advised against it as they said by the time I loaded all my gear I would be pushing the boat's intended limits. They recommended a Keewayden Pack (15 ft) boat which seemed like a bit much to me and considerably heavier. I didn't purchase one but you might think about bringing whatever gear you will be taking when you test paddle. That will give you an idea of the freeboard you will have as well as how it will handle under a load. If I were going to purchase and expensive canoe, I'd certainly want to paddle it first.

              I have build a couple of strip built boats. They are certainly beautiful boats, but you might think about declaring one a utility boat and not worry so much about the scratches. In my mind, they're designed to be used, not just look pretty. To each his/her own though.

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              • #8
                I have a Swift 13.6 kayak. I tried the canoe when I bought the kayak and really liked the way it handled. I can only speak for this boat and can tell you I am wholeheartedly satisfied with it. My wife has the Swift ADK 12lt and I use that for trout fishing. They're great boats.
                Life's short, hunt hard!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EagleCrag View Post
                  Wooden: How much do you weigh and what are you going to use the canoe for? I weigh 200 lbs and stopped in at Racquette River Outfitters to look at the Adk 13.6 which I thought might be a good choice for me for some overnight (2 -3 day solo) trips. I was advised against it as they said by the time I loaded all my gear I would be pushing the boat's intended limits.
                  I have the PBW Spitfire 13 and I weigh 240# and it handled me, my food, camping and fishing gear with an extra paddle etc for an extended 7 day trip pond hopping in Algonquin Park. 2-3 day solo trips would are a piece of cake. I never felt or did it look overloaded nor did it feel unstable. My trip partner had a Rapid Fire on the trip as well but we were essentially solo tripping. Here's a look at the PBW's in action on the Algonquin trip:
                  I head off on a 7 day canoe trip to Algonquin Park, Ontario Canada. A "blind date" with David S. (forum alias: Coldfeet) who had planned this trip. David, ne...
                  My YouTube channel

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the Info

                    Thank you all for the information and comments. I believe I have found a home of like minded people here when it comes to getting out and enjoying what mother natures has blessed us with. Before some idiot destroys it for a $


                    The problem I have with not keeping my strippers in top condition is in my head. That and the fact that my kids have all laid claims to them when I'm gone. lol.

                    A little about me.
                    I live in the WB Scranton area, 5'10", weigh in at 190+, and looking to use the canoe for fishing locally and day trips to 7 day multi portage hidden gem pond hops in a float plane.

                    At this point I don't want to build another boat. I just want to enjoy being on the water and in the back country. Without having paddled one, My concerns for the SF 13 is the seat and with the shape if it would be as effortless to paddle as the swift. It appears to have much more tumble home which would make it more stable in the big water. Of course this is all from reading the specs and looking that the pictures.
                    Wooden Builder
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      I'll have to contain my remarks to the PBW boats as I don't have a Swift pack canoe nor have paddled one. I have seen them but do not recall the hull shape.

                      I have the big bro to the Spitfire 13. The RapidFire. Its two feet longer and for me it is perfect. I occasionally push the limits of pack canoe to the ocean and Lake Superior and wanted additional buoyancy and the ability to occasionally overload it. At the start of some 10 day Everglades trips the total burden is over 400 lbs including some 140 lbs of fresh water. Lake Superior has the rep of throwing big waves at you even as you seek to escape. And at home on the Gulf Of Maine once we paddled to shore safety while the outfitter whose dock we used said "you stayed dry in that?"Seakindliness is top of my priorities. More on that later
                      That shouldered tumblehome on the Placid boats deflects waves downward that come in from the side. With a burden in the boat you really do not want water in your lap. That design is a way to incorporate flare into the hull ( flare sheds waves well) while narrowing width just below the paddling station to allow the use of shorter double blades.

                      I have two seats for it. Standard and permanently installed is a low seat. Its glued to the floor. Over it I have the option to attach a high seat for single blading. It has a different seat angle that changes the boat dynamics.
                      The seats on Placid boats use backbands that in theory hinder torso rotation way less than high back seats while still allowing supports..

                      I do like the inclusion of carry thwarts on both ends of the Swifts. I have had my PBW for 11 years and had to plead for carry thwarts on both ends. With these light boats you really have to secure them at both ends as they make good sails.

                      Now both boats under consideration are designed by David Yost. Seakindliness is top of his considerations. He wants the user to feel safe if conditions deteriorate. This doesn't mean that all his boats are big water boats but that for their intended use they make the experience as pleasurable as possible.

                      And now my complaint is that manufacturers never give you hull cross sections which gives you a better view of the boat and you can guess how it will handle.

                      I agree that you should never buy a boat that you cannot test paddle and if you can't find a Spitfire convenient to you so be it. I don't think differences will be that much. There isn't a perfect boat!

                      Since you are in Scranton there are more possibilities for you in terms of pack canoes but at this time of the year test paddling requires a wet or drysuit.

                      You should be safe in your intended waters; bigger water requires a bigger boat.

                      Tumblehome makes paddling easier. I can't ever envision paddling a high backed seat craft for serious paddling trips; I try to use torso rotation. However I think the shape differences ( if there are any) are minor compared to acquire good paddling form. IE you are as important as the boat.

                      Good thread . I 'm looking forward to paddling Rapid Fire in Florida for a month soon. Mostly big Gulf water but also twisty mangrove tunnels ( the high seat and single stick comes in handy when the waterway is three feet wide and six feet tall. And the low seat in choppy two foot Gulf waves.)

                      You are correct in that not having a dealer network has disadvantages. Fortunately Joe is building some relationships in Florida because of the plethora of paddling geezers tired of dragging SOT's

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                      • #12
                        I originally had all 3 of the available drop in seats that Joe offered for my RF. But for single blade paddling I wanted to sit higher. I knew Joe had a high rail mounted seat that he used when racing. When I asked him to install one in mine, he was reluctantly cautious, because most people, including him, paddle those boats with a double blade kayak paddle. I wanted to go single blade. So I got the high seat mounted on in-line rails to allow fore and aft trim. I love the configuration and do not find the boat be "tippy" at all. Actually, the amount of tip or heel I get is helpful for maneuverability. The seat is mounted with a forward 15 degrees drop in front, the best angle for racing. Because of that, the backband is not used. For other customers, I believe that Joe has strengthened the mid-section hull enough to allow for a drop seat hanging from the gunwales, but that has to be built into the boat during construction and is not an option for me now.
                        "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                        • #13
                          Yes that's part of the advantage of buying New from a semi custom and hence more expensive builder
                          They can tweak to your specific needs. But it has to be done before construction in lightweight boats as specific areas need more reinforcing

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                          • #14
                            WB/Scranton

                            Wooden Builder,

                            I am your northern neighbor in Binghamton. If you ever want to paddle shoot me a message a gjoe38@yahoo

                            Joe
                            Visit me at: www.adirondackjoe.wordpress.com
                            Whats the matter Col. Sanders, Chicken!

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                            • #15
                              A couple of years ago when I was looking, I tried the Swift Keewaydin 14 , the Northstar ( Bell) magic and the PBW Rapidfire. I found the Radipfire to be more stable then the other 2 and I wanted the extra room in a 15 footer cause I carry a lot of extras.

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