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Old 01-28-2018, 08:25 AM   #41
Buckladd
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I agree with Justin that Alt. 1 was the preference for the towns, but I'm sure they'll be happy with 2B as it allows a snowmobile connector trail.

Montcalm: Just curious, is/was there a mountain bike initiative proposed to DEC or is there a group that represents the interests of mountain biking in NY? I know little about mountain biking so I ask if anyone from that community ever works with DEC. If not, I wouldn't expect them to look out for your interests. I say that not to criticize DEC, but I do know that both hunters and snowmobilers integrate regularly with them.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:25 AM   #42
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Montcalm: Just curious, is/was there a mountain bike initiative proposed to DEC or is there a group that represents the interests of mountain biking in NY? I know little about mountain biking so I ask if anyone from that community ever works with DEC. If not, I wouldn't expect them to look out for your interests. I say that not to criticize DEC, but I do know that both hunters and snowmobilers integrate regularly with them.
Listen, I have little hope for mountain biking in the Adirondacks. It doesn't matter much to me personally, there are literally hundreds of other places to ride.

I mentioned it for a couple reasons that seem to be quite contradictory. First off, people always "sell" WF as how great it will be for bikers, or whatever. That is almost never the case. So again, give that, I'd much rather support a Wilderness classification despite it not aligning with my "personal interests".

This was probably lost in the tangent from Bounder trying to tell me my ideals are wrong, but really what bugs me is all the northfolk crying about their economy yet there is very little incentive to "develop" sustainable outdoor rec like in other mountain communities. In my personal view, sports like BC skiing and mountain biking take a backseat to things like snowmobiling and hiking. In most aspects, I don't find either of those activities very sustainable given the current infrastructure. Hiking being especially egregious in the popular areas like the high peaks.

The last thing I've mentioned hundreds of times, but I honestly cannot wrap my head around the archaic notion of excluding bikes from Wilderness. The political climate has been changing on the National level, so we'll see where that goes. I'm not of the mind that the change in rules would do much, because of my previous statement. But if people were to change their attitudes about bikes, it could be a positive all around in creating more remote areas in regards to motor vehicles.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:35 AM   #43
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Listen, I have little hope for mountain biking in the Adirondacks. It doesn't matter much to me personally, there are literally hundreds of other places to ride.
I believe there's hope for anything in terms of developing new ideas when there's a concerted effort to implement it. I'm not a snowmobiler but I know that as a group they're the ones, along with the community leaders, that approached TNC and DEC with ideas for trails on the former Finch lands, including Boreas.

Right now, in the hunting sector, there is an organized push by crossbow enthusiasts and they continue to gain ground. They're not where they want to be but they have more than they did five years ago. I also know that equestrians have been asking for more/better opportunities in the Eastern ADKs and part of the Frontier Town campground will cater to them.
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Old 01-28-2018, 11:27 AM   #44
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The last thing I've mentioned hundreds of times, but I honestly cannot wrap my head around the archaic notion of excluding bikes from Wilderness. The political climate has been changing on the National level, so we'll see where that goes. I'm not of the mind that the change in rules would do much, because of my previous statement. But if people were to change their attitudes about bikes, it could be a positive all around in creating more remote areas in regards to motor vehicles.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had very few good encounters with mt. bikers. Most of my encounters were of the negative variety where I am out on a hike and a mt. biker(s) tells me to get out of the way and screams past me at full speed.

This has happened in WF AND Wilderness areas and these people have had no regard for the law or another's safety.

The only time I had a good encounter was when the terrain was so rough, they had to get off the bike and walk.

Like everything else, I'm sure there are good bikers out there, I just don't see them often.

Perhaps it's the bikers attitude that needs to change.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:13 PM   #45
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I believe there's hope for anything in terms of developing new ideas when there's a concerted effort to implement it. I'm not a snowmobiler but I know that as a group they're the ones, along with the community leaders, that approached TNC and DEC with ideas for trails on the former Finch lands, including Boreas.

Right now, in the hunting sector, there is an organized push by crossbow enthusiasts and they continue to gain ground. They're not where they want to be but they have more than they did five years ago. I also know that equestrians have been asking for more/better opportunities in the Eastern ADKs and part of the Frontier Town campground will cater to them.
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=23232

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had very few good encounters with mt. bikers. Most of my encounters were of the negative variety where I am out on a hike and a mt. biker(s) tells me to get out of the way and screams past me at full speed.

This has happened in WF AND Wilderness areas and these people have had no regard for the law or another's safety.

The only time I had a good encounter was when the terrain was so rough, they had to get off the bike and walk.

Like everything else, I'm sure there are good bikers out there, I just don't see them often.

Perhaps it's the bikers attitude that needs to change.
I guarantee I hike on way more multi-use MTB trails than you do and I've never had that happen, ever...
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:27 PM   #46
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I do recall one encounter in particular with a hiker while being on my bike in the Adirondacks. It's a shared use trail (hiking trail) that is legal for bike use.

I approached a lady from the rear. I could see her from a long ways off and could hear something, like music.

As I got closer I slowed down and started to approach and was about to inform her of my presence (some people can hear a bike by the cassette) when she jumped and yelled at me. She was obviously very skittish.

She seemed to think I came rocketing up on her... not the case, I was going little faster than walking speed as I approached her and never got within 10 yards of her before she freaked out. She had an iPhone attached to her shirt that was playing music as loudly as the speakers would allow.

I asked her why she was playing music on this somewhat busy trail (I had ran into 3 or 4 other groups of hikers with no issue) and her response was to keep away the bears.

I told her she might want to turn off the music and be more aware of her surroundings. She was really snippy with me so I rode off.

I'm sure she hates bikes and swears I ran her off the trail and was rude to her.

Last edited by montcalm; 01-28-2018 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:51 PM   #47
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Ha...Speaking of hiker/biker encounters...
Reminds me of Oct. ‘16 when some friends & I were carting our canoes from Boreas Ponds back to the (appreciated by all of us) second gate at the summer interim parking area... On our way out we had stopped to take a quick break & wait up for a couple other members of our group to catch up before continuing up the gentle hill ahead, when all of a sudden 3 people on bicycles came flying down the hill toward us. We saw them coming & tried like heck to get out of their way and move all our canoes & canoe carts & backpacks, but unfortunately our efforts did not seem to go over very well. We were greeted by noticeably unhappy facial expressions with memorable dirty looks & no response to “Hi guys how’s it goin, sorry for getting in the way.”

Call me crazy but this thread & that experience alone does not sound encouraging for hiker & biker relations on Gulf Brook Rd.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:02 PM   #48
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So um, I really don't get this... because someone had one bad encounter with some jerks, it's all finger pointing.

I live in a very active bike community. It's not one that would really attract tourists, but that's not the idea. Our economy doesn't really need that.

I bike, hike and ski these trails daily. I've only had a handful of rough encounters and mostly they were bike-to-bike or skier-to-skier, usually where someone was not paying attention or out of control. People that hike on the multi-use bike trails get respect for the most part, but they also must be aware that bikes are around. Not everyone will be nice or respectful, and that goes for hiker to hiker interactions too. It is the responsibility of the faster moving party to be in control and be aware of slower moving parties, whatever their mode of transport may be. Perhaps it's a community thing, but people tend to be respectful of this on our trail systems.

And as I pointed out in my other rant thread, hikers are often the most rude, ignorant and unprepared trail users I come across.

Also, Justin, your situation may have been an honest mistake, but large groups blocking an entire trail, or roadway in this situation is really not good trail etiquette, and you should know that. I often see this with large groups, bikes or hikers, who take over the entire trail and are completely clueless as to what is going on around them and in their own little world. Sounds like you were aware, but stopping and blocking the trail for other uses is not the proper thing to do, no matter what you are doing.

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Old 01-28-2018, 07:13 PM   #49
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Also, Justin, your situation may have been an honest mistake, but large groups blocking an entire trail, or roadway in this situation is really not good trail etiquette, and you should know that.
Agreed, hence my attempt to make everyone aware that some bikers are coming, be polite, say hello, apologize for being in the way, and then make fun of their neon green spandex after they rode by.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:21 PM   #50
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Agreed, hence my attempt to make everyone aware that some bikers are coming, be polite, say hello, apologize for being in the way, and then make fun of their neon green spandex after they rode by.
Sorry they weren't polite to you, but that really has little to with bikes.

I've had people blow me off the trail in the HPW on foot. People are really serious up there, and don't expect to get any hellos or many nods.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:30 PM   #51
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Hi guys, nice canoes! Heads up, team practice coming through...
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:44 PM   #52
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Perhaps you are just trying to be funny or get my goat, but you do realize there are many different disciplines of MTB and what you post there looks to be DH biking like you might see at a ski resort in the summer.

What you get for trail riding is entirely different.

Here's a video of a trail near me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FB8Ou1ZTp4

People also hike in this park and all the trails are considered multi-use. Often times any feature that might be built (jump or the like) is built out of downed trees and deadfall found around the trail to keep it as natural as possible. When it rots away, it is gone and the trail changes.

This section of trail has a bit of speed but often the farther you get into the backcountry, the lower the speeds will be, except on descents. And trails that are properly built won't have grades that are too steep to aid drainage and prevent erosion.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:44 PM   #53
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http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=23232



I guarantee I hike on way more multi-use MTB trails than you do and I've never had that happen, ever...
Oh, you do, huh?
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:49 PM   #54
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Oh, you do, huh?
Missing your point... yes, near home, I am on multi-use trails daily, either hiking, skiing or on my bike.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:07 PM   #55
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Here's a video of a trail near me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FB8Ou1ZTp4
Cool vid, but the volume was a little weak, and it looked like the rider blew right passed some interesting views...bummer.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:21 PM   #56
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Cool vid, but the volume was a little weak, and it looked like the rider blew right passed some interesting views...bummer.
Yeah - I don't think the audio was very important. Did he say anything?

Thing is, in that area, you get all the views like 5 times because of the nested sections of the trail. Also, people can hike here too if they want to stop and smell the roses... or paddle the creek in the lowland portion. Lots of options. People just need to be respectful (polite is nice too of course) of other users and understand trail etiquette.

We are all about the education here. Educate users and promote trail advocacy. This way more trails are built and maintained and more users have a better result when using them.

Also you should keep in mind this area gets more use than the busiest section of the Adirondacks, so cooperation is even more critical.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:25 PM   #57
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Cool, sounds like fun to me & would love to ride there sometime, but by no means would I ever support it in a designated “Wilderness Area”.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:29 PM   #58
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Cool, sounds like fun to me & would love to ride there sometime, but by no means would I ever support it in a designated “Wilderness Area”.
Come down sometime, I'll show you around. If you have two or three full days you can get the full riding experience here. If you have a week, there's good hiking too not far away. And more riding. And paddling.

Hey - no one says you have to support it. I wouldn't support bikes on the current Wilderness area hiking trails. They'd destroy them.

I would support new trails being built that are better designed and able to support multi-use. If that were to happen more in WF areas for now, that'd be great. But it's been pretty slow except for that small pocket near Whiteface.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:33 PM   #59
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Sounds good to me bro!
Any recommendations for a new pair of bike shorts?
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:34 PM   #60
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Sounds good to me bro!
Any recommendations for a new pair of bike shorts?
I keep my spandex under a pair of baggies, so it doesn't matter much, as long as the chamois does it's job.

I'm not really into showing off my legs or my junk.
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