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Old 04-25-2006, 08:10 PM   #1
twochordcool
 
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I propose moose reintroduction!

reason:

1) They were in the Adirondacks before the greedy madmen wiped them out.

2) They're coming back anyway.

3) It's not that easy for them to migrate from New England because of Lake Champlain and Lake George.

and -

4) Moose in the Adirondacks would probably be a whole lot healthier if we expanded their "family tree" - there could be genetic problems if they repopulate from only a handful of animals.

DISCUSS.

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Old 04-25-2006, 09:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
1) They were in the Adirondacks before the greedy madmen wiped them out.
I believe it was a brain worm that did the moose in on this side of the lake

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3) It's not that easy for them to migrate from New England because of Lake Champlain and Lake George.
Actually moose can and do swim across Lake Champlain quite often (They probably account for 99% of the Champ sightings) and can cause a rukus in the towns along its shore. For some reason though they always return them back to Vermont instead of moving them more inward.

The Northway however is a huge barrier
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:18 PM   #3
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Whether it's the Northway or the lake or the fact that they are returned to Vermont, if we want them here, and I think we do, we should help them out.

How much could it possibly cost to tranquilize a dozen in Maine and a dozen in Canada and release them on a dirt road in the Five Ponds Wilderness?
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
release them on a dirt road in the Five Ponds Wilderness?
They are already there in the Five Ponds, several of them. I frequently see tracks and have seen them live more than once, including a cow with very young calf, so we know they are breeding locally. Do you know how many moose are already there, and how many total that area can support? Releasing more competition where they already exist may not be so wise.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:43 PM   #5
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Elk reintroduction was stopped from going forward by an out break of Chronic Wasting Disease in the west.

Moose are also susceptible, so I believe there is concern about reintroducing/moving any member of the deer family right now
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:12 PM   #6
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There are quite a few moose in the Adirondacks. In the six years I have lived here, I have seen about 20.

I don't think we need a reintroduction. I think there are enough here to survive and avoid contact wiith humans. nature will take her course and the moose population will keep the numbers it should be at to survive.

We should not interfere with the process that is in place.
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:54 PM   #7
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There's a standing exhibit on this very subject on moose reintroduction at the New York State Museum in Albany. In fact the whole Adirondack exhibit kept me occupied for a good while -- everything from logging, to forestry, the Tawahus ironworks, surveying, etc. They did a real good job and I recommend it to all.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns
Do you know how many moose are already there, and how many total that area can support? Releasing more competition where they already exist may not be so wise
I read that there is only about 30 moose in the Adirondacks - if clearcutted tree farm Maine can handle hundreds or thousands I think the Adirondacks could.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by redhawk
I think there are enough here to survive and avoid contact wiith humans. nature will take her course and the moose population will keep the numbers it should be at to survive
Yes, but how many of those moose came from how many descendants?

And should that be a concern? I don't know - just a question.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:56 AM   #10
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They seem to be progressing fine without us. I think there are quite a few her especially in the Indian Lake/Cedar River area. Whenever I hike in this area I see lots of signs. Maybe we could reintroduce them unti their population increases then we could reintroduce the wolves to control the moose overpopulation.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
I read that there is only about 30 moose in the Adirondacks - if clearcutted tree farm Maine can handle hundreds or thousands I think the Adirondacks could.
Unless you can produce a recent scientific study on numbers and otherwise supporting what you may think, I must respectfully withhold agreement with your statements. There is a vast credibility range just in your statement of "hundreds or thousands"... which is it? Speculation without specific scientific knowledge on DNA diversity is not a basis to intervene in what nature is already doing, or to suddenly artificially turn loose a foreign population. And NY is not Maine, many conditions are different.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:52 AM   #12
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New York is not that much different from Maine.

And whether we are talking about hundreds or thousands of moose, my point is that there are A LOT more moose in Maine than in New York.

I just figured that it might be a better idea to repopulate the moose with different moose from different places, rather than it building up a population from only a few animals.

But what do I know!
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
I read that there is only about 30 moose in the Adirondacks - if clearcutted tree farm Maine can handle hundreds or thousands I think the Adirondacks could.
I don't know the actual number of moose in the Adirondacks, but I know is far more than 30. They have been living and breading in the park since the early 1990's and there have been sightings since the early 1980's. The population is large enough that moose have been extending there range and populating areas outside the park. Some studies have shown that the moose are even starting to move from the Adirondacks into the Castkill Park. The Adirondack Atlas has some good information on this with maps of documented moose sightings.
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
New York is not that much different from Maine.

And whether we are talking about hundreds or thousands of moose, my point is that there are A LOT more moose in Maine than in New York.

I just figured that it might be a better idea to repopulate the moose with different moose from different places, rather than it building up a population from only a few animals.

But what do I know!
And there are far, far less people in the woods in maine then there are in new york.

And believe me, there are a lot more then 30 moose in the Adirondacks.

Did you know that one of the major sources of auto accidents in maine is people hitting moose in the road?

Also because of the amount of lumbering there is in maine, there is a better habitat for moose. Perhaps we should be more concerned about lowering the maine population by stopping the clear cutting, which is an envirnomental disaster.

You suggest tranqualizing moose in maine and Canada and bringing them here. How would you feel if you were in a place you were familar with, and suddenly woke uo hundreds of miles away, just because someone else thought it was a good idea?

The Moose in Maine and Canada are happy right where they are, and evidently thriving, The moose in the Adirondacks are doing fine as well, and there are not enough of them to be causing an "inconvenience" oe a "nuisance", so they are safe from humans for a while. if the populations become large enough, then they will have to be "managed", or "Culled" (The Fish & Wildlife never use the word "Killed").

Moose or any other animal should not be relocated for the pleasure of humans. relocations should only take place in necessary to restore the balance of nature. if anything needs to be reintroduced, it's prey animals, but that will always be opposed because of the false stigma attached to wolves and cougars and the fact that many hunters look upon them as competition, cutting down on the amount of prey left for them to kill.

For all those people who are enviuyos of the amount of moose in Maine or Canada and some of the Western States, take a trip there. We did last year, along the Allagsh River Wilderness. Saw 13 Moose and lots of Eagles.

Or, move to a place that has what they are are looking for.
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:02 AM   #15
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The moose population is fine here in the dacks and only increasing. With populations of moose thriving in maine canada vermont etc it will only cause the bull moose to venture out into different territories, ex. the adirondacks. Which is one reason why they have, and still are, returning here today. The brain worm was and still is a majior threat to the moose. From what I've heard CWD has only been foudn to effect deer and elk, I have heard nothing about it effecting moose, but it is somthign to look into. Luckly there has been only one or 2 casses of CWD in nys and that was in onendaga county i think. There are many signs of moose throughout the park and i say let them come in on their own as they please. No need to go interfering with nature when nature is doing a fine job on its own. And thats my 2 cents, keep the change.
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:47 AM   #16
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It's always best to let nature take it's course. Moose are naturally filling in the void in NY and they are better at knowing thier needs than we are. If the enviroment can support a certain species such as deer or moose than they have more multiple births and are healthier. There are no predators of moose in NY other than man so they could easily get out of control. I love to see moose also but I am willing to go to them and not bring them to me. It's a wilderness area not a zoo.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:40 PM   #17
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Well said, Hakuna and everyone with similar opinions....the adirondacks is a wilderness not a zoo! Sometimes ,mother nature is best left alone for awhile...the moose that are there are thriving and doing well, its not like bringing back fish to an area, moose is a whole differant ballgame, it takes patience and alot of time...I think us humans should leave `em alone!

This topic is very intereting and very good conversation....I enjoyed reading all the suggestions and input...

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Old 04-26-2006, 05:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
Also because of the amount of lumbering there is in maine, there is a better habitat for moose. Perhaps we should be more concerned about lowering the maine population by stopping the clear cutting, which is an envirnomental disaster
Agreed, Maine is an environmental disgrace. See what greed can do to an otherwise beautiful place. Imagine if prfamerica had their way in the Dacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
You suggest tranqualizing moose in maine and Canada and bringing them here. How would you feel if you were in a place you were familar with, and suddenly woke uo hundreds of miles away, just because someone else thought it was a good idea?
I just don't know that they are smart enough to know the difference - granted, I'm no expert but I would think if you put them in a similar environment with plenty of food they would thrive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
Moose or any other animal should not be relocated for the pleasure of humans. relocations should only take place in necessary to restore the balance of nature.
That's not fair - I made it quite clear that I think it should be done for the sake of the moose population here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
...if anything needs to be reintroduced, it's prey animals, but that will always be opposed because of the false stigma attached to wolves and cougars and the fact that many hunters look upon them as competition, cutting down on the amount of prey left for them to kill
Agree with that also.

And I'm sick of not doing the RIGHT thing because of what a certain group of people want.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
Moose or any other animal should not be relocated for the pleasure of humans. relocations should only take place if necessary to restore the balance of nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
That's not fair - I made it quite clear that I think it should be done for the sake of the moose population here.
Of course it's fair. The Moose in the Adirondacks now have a good food source and habitat. Do you think it's good for the moose to have more competition?

Is a larger moose population better for the moose?

Nature is very efficient. Popuations are set by the amount of food availability, climate and other factors. if food supplies are running lowm then their will be less births, if there is an abundance, there will be more.

What i am trying to say is that Nature can manage the moose fine, without any help (interference) from man.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
You suggest tranqualizing moose in maine and Canada and bringing them here. How would you feel if you were in a place you were familar with, and suddenly woke uo hundreds of miles away, just because someone else thought it was a good idea?
I HATE when that happens !
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