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Old 01-23-2011, 03:57 PM   #21
DSettahr
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Hey maybe if that had put that $150,000 into the Champlain Bridge 3 or 4 years ago it wouldn't have been condemned and taken out of service for a few years?
From what I've heard, it sounds like the new bridge will be worth the wait. It will have a pedestrian crossing, which is something the old bridge used to have but they got rid of it to make room for modern trucks, which have increased in size over the years.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:12 PM   #22
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I think I worded my post a little stronger than I meant to. And I didn't mean to bring politics into it. But $150,000 for a glorified culvert so salamanders can cross the road? In our current economy I feel that's too much money to spend on that particular project. That money would be better used in other ways. But it's Vermont's money to spend as they chose.

Hey maybe if that had put that $150,000 into the Champlain Bridge 3 or 4 years ago it wouldn't have been condemned and taken out of service for a few years?

I guess my point is that I'm in favor of doing everything we can to coexist with wildlife, but at the same time there are priorities.
No worries Limekiln it wasn't taken bad and the cost is a good and important point, I think that sometimes a projects budget will go through the roof without really looking for the most efficient way to do it. I bet if some local community members got together, they might have done the same work with the help of a few local farmers and a D4. There is a place for wildlife and people to work together its actually supposed to be the claim to fame of the Adirondacks. Each year as there are so many more of us people, it is certainly going to be that much more difficult on wildlife. These conversations are vital so we can address all the needs and concerns. We are lucky to have a place like the Adirondacks at all and there really isn't many places left. By discussing these ideas, in a public manor like we are we allow for many others to also think about the concept, its potential benefits and obstacles. Hopefully for years to come people will talk about ways to work with helping protect and enhance biodiversity and then act on it. This article is specific to our Adirondack rattlers, and its inability to cross even small roads. Very interesting perspective. http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news...snakes.html#cr
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:40 PM   #23
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Moose!!

Great article in last months National Wildlife Foundation magazine on this topic.

Great idea but where will the funds come from? I'd love to see it but,

Oh wait a minuet, money is not a problem, I'm sure they could raise it by additional fee's on licenses, raising taxes on beer, cigs, gas coffee, worms. see no problem.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:32 AM   #24
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Great article in last months National Wildlife Foundation magazine on this topic.

Great idea but where will the funds come from? I'd love to see it but,

Oh wait a minuet, money is not a problem, I'm sure they could raise it by additional fee's on licenses, raising taxes on beer, cigs, gas coffee, worms. see no problem.

maddog
I wonder if it would be possible/probable to ask for philanthropic donations by those who would like to bring a project like that to fruition. Not sure if there is, or is not, enough of us out there that would be willing to help donate funding but if that is the case I think that would be the best way. It would ofcourse take longer to complete (waiting for the funding) but would avoid burdening anyone who didn't support the project etc.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:21 PM   #25
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I'm with ya if only wildlife from Canada had an easier time making the journey to the Adirondacks like they do in Maine for example. I think that "smaller" solutions for aquatic and semi aquatic species are cost effective and have shown some positive bang for the buck. The larger highways are a very serious commitment that starts with a strong and thorough study to see if its needed. You bring up a very interesting point, something I have toiled with for years and that is the lack of "road kill" seen while traveling the Adirondacks. At least some R.K. seems to be taken by many species scavenging and even our Coywolves (One wouldn't think so being true carnivores, but they do). The smaller species are taking by Ravens and Crows. All things considered I think the roads have be come a place for some animals to patrol at dusk and dawn looking for a fresh meal that cant runaway. I do think "any" roads do create a barrier, at a minimum because of the lack of cover. Most species want to remain hidden at least until darkness and stepping out into an open road can create that "physiological" barrier. Some other species seem to have a tough go crossing the road at all like the timber rattlers. Here is a great article about the species http://www.carnivoraforum.com/index....ay&thread=6839
When you pull up the link, do a search on "roads" it really drives the point home.
There is a wildlife super highway from Canada to the Adirondacks. It's just like a huge funnel that sweeps down from the Algonquin area.

Here in Canada it is called the Frontenac Axis or Arch and it is a recognized UNESCO Biosphere. Some Canadians have formed a group called Algonquin to Adirondack. The fishers in Northern New York likely arrived there via this route.

If you follow the line of glacial lakes on a map from Algonquin southeast to the 1000 Islands across the border to the Indian River Lake district to the extreme northwest corner of the Park.

Here are the links for more information:

http://www.a2alink.org/
http://www.cpaws-ov-vo.org/?page_id=63
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:47 AM   #26
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There is a wildlife super highway from Canada to the Adirondacks. It's just like a huge funnel that sweeps down from the Algonquin area.

Here in Canada it is called the Frontenac Axis or Arch and it is a recognized UNESCO Biosphere. Some Canadians have formed a group called Algonquin to Adirondack. The fishers in Northern New York likely arrived there via this route.

If you follow the line of glacial lakes on a map from Algonquin southeast to the 1000 Islands across the border to the Indian River Lake district to the extreme northwest corner of the Park.

Here are the links for more information:

http://www.a2alink.org/
http://www.cpaws-ov-vo.org/?page_id=63

Thanks for sharing that I am actually a fan of these folks even emailed them several times. I love the idea and am glad that some are trying to keep the path as green as possible. I know of at least one case of a collared Adirondack Moose showing up at Algonquin Park so there are certainly examples of wildlife making the long journey. I have seen and heard lone Eastern Wolf in Franklin county in NY one at least 2 occasions and several years back someone sadly tapped and killed a pure "Timber" Wolf in the Adirondacks which I assume came down from Algonquin as well (he mentioned seeing a mate at the trap site btw that survived) Its amazing when you think about the amount of barriers from the 401 in Ca, the St Lawrence (even when most is frozen the shipping lanes must pose a bit of a challenge with the current, then Rt 11 in NY and myriad of small farming communities and some larger towns etc. I would love to see more folks embrace the A2A concept and help "green" the region between the 2 zones.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:35 AM   #27
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I sent the links because the websites illustrate the natural connection between the parks but in reality both groups are a bunch tree hugging educated idiots not from the area who don't have a clue. Read the bio's. I've bumped into some of them from time to time and they think I'm some kind of mystical, sage woodsman with a back of hand knowledge of the district. But really I'm just a guy who's lived here all my life and hunts and fishes both sides of the border. I'm sure some folks in the Adirondacks can relate to this.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:01 PM   #28
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in reality both groups are a bunch tree hugging educated idiots not from the area who don't have a clue.
Has MEC partnered with CPAWS?

(Gman, where ya from?)
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #29
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1000 Islands area.

I'm a little harsh but I've spent a lifetime combing all over the countryside here, all the nooks and crannies in all seasons. It's hard to take folks seriously, who's outdoor sensibilities come from David Suzuki and paddling around Charleston Lake or Frontenac Park looking for black snakes and loons.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:31 PM   #30
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1000 Islands area.

I'm a little harsh but I've spent a lifetime combing all over the countryside here, all the nooks and crannies in all seasons. It's hard to take folks seriously, who's outdoor sensibilities come from David Suzuki and paddling around Charleston Lake or Frontenac Park looking for black snakes and loons.
Opinions aren't harsh, they just are what they are. I appreciate your opinion (I don't agree with all of it) but I appreciate that you have one. IMO I think in the end of the day, if a group like A2A is trying to do something that is for the good of a region (ecologically speaking) then they are alright by me. I too have spent my life combing these forests and bogs very much so in fact and I see some great areas and also some development that flies in the face of reason. I would rather see people thinking and discussing long term best practices (helping the diversity of wildlife) when it comes to overall land use, then to not give them (or anyone) a voice, and just assume all is well or that they don't know what they are talking about because they weren't raised here. Perspective is everything. Your years of traversing the park give you a great skill of experience just like their years of studying ecosystems and environmental impacts give them insight and experience. I would be so quick to disregard them. If someone lives their entire life in Cranberry Lake for example and never traveled they might think the world was an endless bounty of forests and great places to canoe. However, just because there is a so-called Blue line, it doesn't mean squat when they are carving up land anyway, thats why Google maps demoted us to a bunch of green islands instead of one big park which is where we are headed in reality if we are not careful about the future. We can only screw it up once after all. One quick flight from East to West across the country (ok Google Maps satellite view is cheaper) but it does put things into perspective. We chewed up most everything there is, across the entire nation. The Adirondacks is on the "very" small list of places that remain where you can still bushwhack out to a hidden remote lake that (isnt) riddled with camps and sit there watching an eagle fly over head while a bear steals your brook trout from your fish bucket. (Or more likely Cookies from your non bear canistered pack- someone reading this is thinking "how did he know"). I assume you would like to see that go on, (maybe not the cookie part) I certainly do. Just like how you enjoy hunting and fishing, which includes a smaller list of species that you look for (deer, Turkey etc), others look for a whole range of plants and animals to admire, study take photo's of whatever etc. Like you, they have a right to protect what they care about and want to see it go on. If we screw this up so short term developers can make some quick cash its unforgivable if you ask me. The local economy is bad (for some reason people who live here complain about that) but if there were a lot of jobs, it would be New York City or Boston after all. Its no different then people who move out to the country and complain about wildlife in their yard? (not a question btw, the "?" symbol indicates things that you go hmmm) All things considered I would rather hug a tree then a parking meter. David Suzuki "The Nature of Things" I have to say it was a great show if you ask me.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:21 PM   #31
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Opinions aren't harsh, they just are what they are. I appreciate your opinion (I don't agree with all of it) but I appreciate that you have one. IMO I think in the end of the day, if a group like A2A is trying to do something that is for the good of a region (ecologically speaking) then they are alright by me. I too have spent my life combing these forests and bogs very much so in fact and I see some great areas and also some development that flies in the face of reason. I would rather see people thinking and discussing long term best practices (helping the diversity of wildlife) when it comes to overall land use, then to not give them (or anyone) a voice, and just assume all is well or that they don't know what they are talking about because they weren't raised here. Perspective is everything. Your years of traversing the park give you a great skill of experience just like their years of studying ecosystems and environmental impacts give them insight and experience. I would be so quick to disregard them. If someone lives their entire life in Cranberry Lake for example and never traveled they might think the world was an endless bounty of forests and great places to canoe. However, just because there is a so-called Blue line, it doesn't mean squat when they are carving up land anyway, thats why Google maps demoted us to a bunch of green islands instead of one big park which is where we are headed in reality if we are not careful about the future. We can only screw it up once after all. One quick flight from East to West across the country (ok Google Maps satellite view is cheaper) but it does put things into perspective. We chewed up most everything there is, across the entire nation. The Adirondacks is on the "very" small list of places that remain where you can still bushwhack out to a hidden remote lake that (isnt) riddled with camps and sit there watching an eagle fly over head while a bear steals your brook trout from your fish bucket. (Or more likely Cookies from your non bear canistered pack- someone reading this is thinking "how did he know"). I assume you would like to see that go on, (maybe not the cookie part) I certainly do. Just like how you enjoy hunting and fishing, which includes a smaller list of species that you look for (deer, Turkey etc), others look for a whole range of plants and animals to admire, study take photo's of whatever etc. Like you, they have a right to protect what they care about and want to see it go on. If we screw this up so short term developers can make some quick cash its unforgivable if you ask me. The local economy is bad (for some reason people who live here complain about that) but if there were a lot of jobs, it would be New York City or Boston after all. Its no different then people who move out to the country and complain about wildlife in their yard? (not a question btw, the "?" symbol indicates things that you go hmmm) All things considered I would rather hug a tree then a parking meter. David Suzuki "The Nature of Things" I have to say it was a great show if you ask me.

Couldn't of said it better myself! Kudos.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:30 AM   #32
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I'm totally up for the salamander crossings. Amphibians are in deep trouble population wise and I think North Branch Nature Center has done some good work in highlighting this. In fact, I'd probably let a few bridges fall and have more wildlife crossings. I saw a study at the Northeast Natural History Conference a couple years ago - a poster paper documented some shocking statistics at the mortality rates of animals due to unnatural deaths in encountering humans. I'm too exhausted to remember any particulars, but as I remember road deaths were a very high contributor to mortality.

But I have to say in general if I had to choose between a new or repaired human bridge and an animal bridge, I tend to be partial to the animal bridges. They closed the bridge at the end of my road for a full year. Most of us who lived around it never wanted it to open again - it was peaceful.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:32 PM   #33
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Opinions aren't harsh, they just are what they are. I appreciate your opinion (I don't agree with all of it) but I appreciate that you have one. IMO I think in the end of the day, if a group like A2A is trying to do something that is for the good of a region (ecologically speaking) then they are alright by me. I too have spent my life combing these forests and bogs very much so in fact and I see some great areas and also some development that flies in the face of reason. I would rather see people thinking and discussing long term best practices (helping the diversity of wildlife) when it comes to overall land use, then to not give them (or anyone) a voice, and just assume all is well or that they don't know what they are talking about because they weren't raised here. Perspective is everything. Your years of traversing the park give you a great skill of experience just like their years of studying ecosystems and environmental impacts give them insight and experience. I would be so quick to disregard them. If someone lives their entire life in Cranberry Lake for example and never traveled they might think the world was an endless bounty of forests and great places to canoe. However, just because there is a so-called Blue line, it doesn't mean squat when they are carving up land anyway, thats why Google maps demoted us to a bunch of green islands instead of one big park which is where we are headed in reality if we are not careful about the future. We can only screw it up once after all. One quick flight from East to West across the country (ok Google Maps satellite view is cheaper) but it does put things into perspective. We chewed up most everything there is, across the entire nation. The Adirondacks is on the "very" small list of places that remain where you can still bushwhack out to a hidden remote lake that (isnt) riddled with camps and sit there watching an eagle fly over head while a bear steals your brook trout from your fish bucket. (Or more likely Cookies from your non bear canistered pack- someone reading this is thinking "how did he know"). I assume you would like to see that go on, (maybe not the cookie part) I certainly do. Just like how you enjoy hunting and fishing, which includes a smaller list of species that you look for (deer, Turkey etc), others look for a whole range of plants and animals to admire, study take photo's of whatever etc. Like you, they have a right to protect what they care about and want to see it go on. If we screw this up so short term developers can make some quick cash its unforgivable if you ask me. The local economy is bad (for some reason people who live here complain about that) but if there were a lot of jobs, it would be New York City or Boston after all. Its no different then people who move out to the country and complain about wildlife in their yard? (not a question btw, the "?" symbol indicates things that you go hmmm) All things considered I would rather hug a tree then a parking meter. David Suzuki "The Nature of Things" I have to say it was a great show if you ask me.
My opinion is of what I am familiar with not something hundreds of miles away. I am talking about an area the size of Tug Hill Plateau in Eastern Ontario where I have lived my whole life. But I have travelled and I do know what a paragraph is

I grew up in the country. As a kid I had a beagle and long before I could shoot a gun I would take him into the woods and listen and watch as he ran cottontails. On weekends I was with my father and his gang that ran foxes with hounds.

The thing is I was in the woods all that time and I was schooled in the ways of animals and I never saw a deer until I was well into my teens! They were that scarce around here. You never saw mink or fishers.

They say coyotes came here in the 20's. Never saw any until the late 60's if there were any around a pack of hounds would find them. Wolves were supposed to extinct for a 100 years but I remember a wolf that wouldn't run that ambushed and killed a hound on a frozen swamp.

Red foxes, rabbits, a rare deer, rumours of a wolf (wolves). That was it. Only raptors were hawks and owls. If you wanted a shot at seeing a bear you had to drive 100 miles north...200 miles for a moose.

Fast forward 50-60 years. The transformation is astounding. We have tons of deer, bears, mink, fishers, bobcats, eagles, ospreys, falcons, turkey vultures, wild turkeys. We have moose close by even elk.

There is more forest cover here than 100 years ago.

So having witnessed all that in my lifetime its hard to take some city guy babbling about diminishing habitats and species in peril BS on the Frontenac Arch.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:11 PM   #34
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My opinion is of what I am familiar with not something hundreds of miles away. I am talking about an area the size of Tug Hill Plateau in Eastern Ontario where I have lived my whole life. But I have travelled and I do know what a paragraph is

I grew up in the country. As a kid I had a beagle and long before I could shoot a gun I would take him into the woods and listen and watch as he ran cottontails. On weekends I was with my father and his gang that ran foxes with hounds.

The thing is I was in the woods all that time and I was schooled in the ways of animals and I never saw a deer until I was well into my teens! They were that scarce around here. You never saw mink or fishers.

They say coyotes came here in the 20's. Never saw any until the late 60's if there were any around a pack of hounds would find them. Wolves were supposed to extinct for a 100 years but I remember a wolf that wouldn't run that ambushed and killed a hound on a frozen swamp.

Red foxes, rabbits, a rare deer, rumours of a wolf (wolves). That was it. Only raptors were hawks and owls. If you wanted a shot at seeing a bear you had to drive 100 miles north...200 miles for a moose.

Fast forward 50-60 years. The transformation is astounding. We have tons of deer, bears, mink, fishers, bobcats, eagles, ospreys, falcons, turkey vultures, wild turkeys. We have moose close by even elk.

There is more forest cover here than 100 years ago.

So having witnessed all that in my lifetime its hard to take some city guy babbling about diminishing habitats and species in peril BS on the Frontenac Arch.
I would have to say I pretty much agree with most everything you said including the funny part about run on sentences - certainly made me smile.
The return of the forest cover, range of wildlife and related has all been improving - which is great news. I think there are tons of reasons for that some obvious, and some probably less so. I know My father used to speak often about how difficult it was to find a deer when he was a child during the great depression. In those days pretty much anything that moved ended up on the dinner table so even though there was less people living in the region there was more stress on anything else living hear. As you mentioned the lack of tree cover was a big deal. Most folks were farmers or loggers back in the day and "Everyone" used to heat their homes 100% with wood. One less thought about were changes in the PH of the soil and water. Until the clean Air, act most lakes in the Adirondacks were being bleached sterile from acid rain, killing fish like Brookies each Spring form Acid shock (which worked is way up the whole food chain). Its not perfect today by any stretch but far better then it was. One thing that's food for thought; is it possible, that some of the improvements that you mentioned are "because" or at least assisted by people studying, and helping to pass laws to improve our Adirondack ecology? PS: Yes, I know it just made one over sized paragraph.
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