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Old 04-26-2017, 07:57 AM   #21
Neil
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I hiked the same trails just this past weekend and visited the aforementioned LT for lunch before hiking back and forth from there to the Falls. The LT and immediate area was as clean as to be expected for such an easy to get to and beautiful spot. There were a few items "left behind" but less than average.

As for no tents close to the LT I agree with the rule but understand it is not immediately intuitive. I suspect it is due to the soil compaction that so easily ensues in the Adirondacks. Once the soil is compacted, little grows and water pools.

Great initiative by the teacher and great responses overall on the thread. I suggest that the class pen a diplomatic (unemotional?) reply and post it to this thread.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:09 AM   #22
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If I have learned one thing in all my years of involvement with internet forums it is this:

Never assume anything! :-)
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:26 PM   #23
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thanks for the advice guys, next trip we will definitely put under 1 heading, i will have each student read the prior post and add his or her own personal touch! we are talking about kids 14-17 here so please excuse any bad grammar etc....

i feel it is important for them to share their experiences and this is the best way to do it and hopefully help some others out as we would never have planned on using that lean to by the DEC place if we knew how bad the area around it looked! the mud in front was not cool as we did not want to hang out in it not put tents in it... i guess that is where the confusion came in? we considered marching off 150 feet from the dec building and starting a primitive 0 impact site up for the night as the clearing was inviting and it was full moon night!

temps had to hit 20 and even with all my winter clothes on and my good gear i was cold so i cant imagine how bad it was in the kids tents! steripen was awesome, so easy to use and perfect for nalgene bottles..... the big tough guy 16 year old hillbilly hauled in the burgers dogs and bacon! gotta love youth.. i would of been eating dry freezed without him!

we will be submitting our report from a 4 day canoe trip in june and will keep all these great suggestions in mind, have fun out there guys!!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:28 PM   #24
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they tried to hide some duct tape and a couple candy wrappers on me but i do a big sweep before we leave and yes they do get points off for not keeping their site clean!!! hope all else looked great we tried to leave 0 trace.....
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:24 PM   #25
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I just wanted to add that I think it's really great what you are doing here Randy. Taking the time to let these kids experience and get an appreciation for nature and the Adirondacks while teaching them wilderness ethics, rules and community involvement is commendable. I have to believe it will benefit not only the participants in the years to come, but also the Adirondacks as a whole because you have hopefully started them on a path to becoming responsible stewards of the land.

Plus, while I'm sure some of the students may have thought you were nit-picking with the DEC regulations I am sure some of the responses on this forum will reinforce for them that the rules are indeed taken seriously by those with a respect for the Park. I have a feeling they will keep that in mind on future hiking and camping excursions. None of us started as an expert, knowing every rule and every ethical thing to do, but we all went through a learning process just as your students are. I think you have them off to a great start. Personally, I'm still learning and hope I always will be.

With all the negativity that always seems to permeate the news, it's nice to hear some positive stuff too! So anyway - good job to yourself as well as your kids who I am sure will learn and grow from this experience that they all seem so excited to have undertaken!
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:31 PM   #26
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Hear Hear! I echo that sentiment. I was a boy scout way back in the dark ages, and learned most of my appreciation for wilderness stewardship back then, but not everyone had that opportunity or could devote that much time every week. So it's great that you are out there teaching them the ropes.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
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... None of us started as an expert, knowing every rule and every ethical thing to do, but we all went through a learning process just as your students are. ...
+1
My first backpacking trip to the High Peaks was in 1979. Straight in to Marcy Dam and camped right on a pebbly bend of Marcy Brook, literally 150 inches from the water! A rainstorm came in during the evening and so did a DEC Assistant Ranger who kindly informed us we were camped much too close to the water. He agreed to let us stay the night because we agreed to strike camp the following morning. I picked up a few pamphlets and then the guidebook from the ADK Mtn Club to learn what else I was doing wrong.

It's so much easier to do the 'right thing' nowadays with access to the Internet and educators like Randy S.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:16 PM   #28
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I would also like to thank you Randy for doing what you do with kids that age. There are few kids these days that even go outside, at least in my experience the last 5 years. I was a boy scout as well and am glad for the experience but it doesn't seem to be as prevalent with the youth now.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:31 PM   #29
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+1
My first backpacking trip to the High Peaks was in 1979. Straight in to Marcy Dam and camped right on a pebbly bend of Marcy Brook, literally 150 inches from the water! A rainstorm came in during the evening and so did a DEC Assistant Ranger who kindly informed us we were camped much too close to the water. He agreed to let us stay the night because we agreed to strike camp the following morning. I picked up a few pamphlets and then the guidebook from the ADK Mtn Club to learn what else I was doing wrong.

It's so much easier to do the 'right thing' nowadays with access to the Internet and educators like Randy S.
Boss,
From your account, you camped below Marcy Dam.
Would you care to explain that??
Marcy Dam mitigated flood waters below the dam.
Marcy Dam pond maintained a constant level.
Jim
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:17 PM   #30
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Mr. H,

What is the speed of light in a vacuum?
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:31 PM   #31
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Hard Scrabble,

At the southern end of Marcy Dam's pond, you may recall there used to be a meadow where campers would pitch their tents. The Hudowalski lean-to was in that meadow as well and could be seen from the dam's walkway. The meadow was in between the two branches of Marcy Brook. We camped on the bank of the eastern branch of Marcy Brook.

Hudowalski lean-to was relocated to higher ground and no one is permitted to camp in what is left of the meadow. Marcy Brook's pebbly shore is still visible in this satellite image:
http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.15...226&z=19&b=sat


I have a Kodachrome of me leaning against a large boulder on the pebbly bank and reading a map. It'd be fun to try to locate that spot today. If you look closely at the satellite image, there's a large boulder in the eastern branch of Marcy Brook, close to where it enters the pond (or what used to be the pond). I wonder if that's the same boulder!
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:19 PM   #32
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I have a Kodachrome of me leaning against a large boulder on the pebbly bank and reading a map.
Boss, Are you able to share the image?
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:32 PM   #33
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Justin,

I've been meaning to have all my old Kodachrome slides digitized but have never gotten around to it. Sadly, the emulsion on some of the slides has deteriorated and the images are fading away (disappearing back into the past). However, just for you, I put a halogen desk lamp under our glass dining table, aimed it to shine upward, put the slides on a sheet of translucent parchment paper on the glass table, set my camera to macro setting, and photographed four old Kodachromes. Hardly professional-quality results but good enough to peer into the blurry past.





Here's where we newbies camped by Marcy Brook (eastern branch). Waaaay too close to the water! Note the boulder in the foreground. The meadow isn't visible but it's off to the left. If you compare this area to a satellite photo, you'll notice Marcy Brook has become much wider.




This is your truly, minus several decades, checking out the first of several ADK Mtn Club High Peaks maps I would own. I'm resting against the boulder seen in the first photo. Notice there's a trail leading to this spot, likely the primary route to the meadow.




I have a lot of slides but, let's face it, the mountains don't change that much over one's lifetime. However, here's one that might interest a few folks. It's Lake Colden and Flowed Lands, except the dam hasn't been breached so Flowed Lands is full of water.




This is one of the slides that has deteriorated. It's circa 1984 and shows my friend crossing a fast-running Johns Brook on a metal suspension bridge. This bridge spanned Johns Brook at Bushnell Falls (currently, there's no bridge). You can see the red trail marker on the opposite shore, indicating we are on the section of the Phelps Trail south of Bushnell Falls. The bridge was in bad shape and you can see the orange tape installed to dissuade hikers from using it. However, given the brook's condition, we took a chance and all made it across safely.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:14 AM   #34
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Very cool and interesting pics! Thanks for taking the time to process them to be able to post and share.

That pack sure looks heeeavy! And I'd bet that being full of older, pre-ultralight gear it almost certainly was.

(Seeing all that green vegetation is getting me both antsy and excited for the summer)
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:01 AM   #35
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Neat photos, thanks for sharing Boss!
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:20 PM   #36
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Hard Scrabble,

At the southern end of Marcy Dam's pond, you may recall there used to be a meadow where campers would pitch their tents. The Hudowalski lean-to was in that meadow as well and could be seen from the dam's walkway. The meadow was in between the two branches of Marcy Brook. We camped on the bank of the eastern branch of Marcy Brook.

Hudowalski lean-to was relocated to higher ground and no one is permitted to camp in what is left of the meadow. Marcy Brook's pebbly shore is still visible in this satellite image:
http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.15...226&z=19&b=sat


I have a Kodachrome of me leaning against a large boulder on the pebbly bank and reading a map. It'd be fun to try to locate that spot today. If you look closely at the satellite image, there's a large boulder in the eastern branch of Marcy Brook, close to where it enters the pond (or what used to be the pond). I wonder if that's the same boulder!
I remember well, the dam and the meadow. i've stayed at the leanto you mentioned.
The leanto was located on the southern shore of what was once Marcy Dam Pond.
The first place that I saw "crystal frost". A formation of ice crystals above the snow pack. Formed after a warm day and a cold night.
They "tinkled" like broken glass when broken.
Anyway, i far predate you.
No one camped below the dam.
Too rocky for a good campsite.
Jim
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