OK, curious, be honest...

[DSettahr]

Yes, I am very familiar with the amount of "stuff" that tends to end up at Pharaoh Lake.

I encountered a group that hauled an ice chest on a cart to Pharaoh Lake once. They indicated that it weighed about 200 pounds, filled with ice and venison (and probably a fair amount of beer). I'm sure they exaggerated on the weight a little bit, but if you took one look at the chest, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't light. To their credit, the site was absolutely spotless when they left. I'm pretty sure they even carried out a bunch of garbage that wasn't theirs.

[mike]

Originally Posted by DSettahr

Yes, I am very familiar with the amount of "stuff" that tends to end up at Pharaoh Lake.

I encountered a group that hauled an ice chest on a cart to Pharaoh Lake once. They indicated that it weighed about 200 pounds, filled with ice and venison (and probably a fair amount of beer). I'm sure they exaggerated on the weight a little bit, but if you took one look at the chest, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't light. To their credit, the site was absolutely spotless when they left. I'm pretty sure they even carried out a bunch of garbage that wasn't theirs.

200lbs would probably only be a slight exaggeration. Some of those large coolers can hold well over 100 cans of bear, and weigh 20lbs empty.

If it was a 100quart+ cooler, its not hard to imagine it being 120-200lbs, depending how full it was.

I've digressed a bit, but its fun to talk about how crazy people are.

[Anonymous]

Interesting post. Burning garbage aside, I'm actually surprised by the number of members that don't have fires.

For me, sitting by the fire as the sun sets after a great day of hiking or paddling is a huge part of the experience. Im not sure I could give that up.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Interesting post. Burning garbage aside, I'm actually surprised by the number of members that don't have fires.

For me, sitting by the fire as the sun sets after a great day of hiking or paddling is a huge part of the experience. I'm not sure I could give that up.

IMO, you don't need to give up fires entirely to make a positive difference. At least occasionally choosing not to have them would make a huge difference, I think, if everyone did it. For example, if you get into a campsite late on a Friday night and are heading to bed soon anyways, don't have a fire on that night. And when you do have a fire, do what you can to limit the size and/or duration of it, as appropriate for the site and how much use the area gets.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Interesting post. Burning garbage aside, I'm actually surprised by the number of members that don't have fires.

And to think that the results of this "interesting" poll are still more than half!

[MrKawfey]

Originally Posted by Justin

And to think that the results of this "interesting" poll are still more than half!

I think it may be a bit misleading. I voted for the "if you can incinerate" option, but that, for me essentially means paper product only. That's a lot different than someone who votes the same way but throws leftovers in the fire along with the plastic wrapper the food was packed in.

Despite the wording of the poll I think it's great that this thread keeps bubbling to the top because is a discussion worth having.

[Justin]

Ok, Montcalm was right, I am a hypocrite!
I was out camping with an Adkforum member (who doesn't post much anymore), and I got busted blowing my nose into toilet paper and then disposing in the campfire, and it was "very gooey"!
So it appears that I should've voted yes to this poll instead of no... I guess I do burn my gooey trash instead of carrying it out.

[geogymn]

The path to redemption leads to the highest (in)sights.

[John H Swanson]

PET (soda bottles) when burned break down into only water vapor, oxygen, and carbon (soot) It is quite friendly to burn. You will need to make sure it has no label or label glue or tamper evident cap ring ....if you are looking for a LNT burn

PVC, by comparison, when burned at a low temperature, such as on a campfire, gives off dioxin which is carcinogenic. That would be "leave big trace"

In the old days, some water bottles were PVC, but now most are PET. The code on the bottom tells you the composition.

So, if you choose to burn plastic, it is important to bring the right plastic.

btw, most paper food wrappers (like oatmeal pouches) are lined with plastic to make them heat sealable. So don't think you're burning only paper when you're not. This plastic is PE.

I answered yes to burning but often don't make a fire at all. And burning a Poland Spring 8oz water bottle to avoid carrying the weight out of the woods is comical logic.

Some times I burn a candle and that comes from crude oil and gives off pollution too! I might switch to beeswax or a canola oil lamp.

[All Downhill From Here]

"Minimize Campfire Impacts" and "Dispose of Waste Properly" are 2 of my rules.

Burning trash is a leftover sentiment from when you had to burn the tin off your cans so that they'd rust in the can dump behind the shelter.

[mike]

Originally Posted by John H Swanson

PET (soda bottles) when burned break down into only water vapor, oxygen, and carbon (soot) It is quite friendly to burn. You will need to make sure it has no label or label glue or tamper evident cap ring ....if you are looking for a LNT burn

PET is used to make polyester and a few other materials, its not a super clean process, but its still pretty awesome.

PET is fairly LNT all around to be honest.

So if you're wearing a polyester fleece, you are basically wearing a bunch of soda bottles.

[MrKawfey]

I suppose I'd like to ask about food. Generally, I don't throw food in the fire, but there's always an occasional spill from a pot or a dropped piece that gets tossed in. If food items are "completely" burned, wouldn't you just be left with carbon? What's so different between a stick and a stick of celery, for example?

Obviously unburned food left behind is an issue, but are there some foods that are harmful even in a completely burned state?

I'm curious to know, depending on the answer it would be pretty easy to switch jobs and just let my wife do the cooking, then everything would be completely burned for sure.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by MrKawfey

I suppose I'd like to ask about food. Generally, I don't throw food in the fire, but there's always an occasional spill from a pot or a dropped piece that gets tossed in. If food items are "completely" burned, wouldn't you just be left with carbon? What's so different between a stick and a stick of celery, for example?

Obviously unburned food left behind is an issue, but are there some foods that are harmful even in a completely burned state?

I'm curious to know, depending on the answer it would be pretty easy to switch jobs and just let my wife do the cooking, then everything would be completely burned for sure.

I can think of a few potential issues with burning food. For one, throwing food into the fire can cause the scent of the food to spread over a much wider area as it burns, which carries with it the potential for attracting wildlife to the site.

The second issue is that a lot of people who burn food fail to ensure that it is fully consumed by the fire, so once the site is vacated, you've got food scraps left behind in the fire pit. Again, this can lead to problems with negative human-wildlife encounters.

It's also worth nothing that the DEC regulations are pretty clear that only dead and downed wood may be burned. It is a violation to burn any garbage, even paper.

[montcalm]

Originally Posted by Justin

Ok, Montcalm was right, I am a hypocrite!
I was out camping with an Adkforum member (who doesn't post much anymore), and I got busted blowing my nose into toilet paper and then disposing in the campfire, and it was "very gooey"!
So it appears that I should've voted yes to this poll instead of no... I guess I do burn my gooey trash instead of carrying it out.

We all do it, and it's harmless. I forgive you, although the DEC may not be as understanding as I am.

I actually put my gooey nose papers in my pocket and let them dry out for the next trip. Makes for excellent tinder

FWIW I am the guy who says something when I'm with people who throw food or plastic or bottles or cans in the fire. I'll make them pick it out. It's not an argument I ever lose.

[dmartenvt]

My guess (as an environmental chemist) is that burning PET plastic at regular campfire temps has the potential of creating PAH's (polyaromatic hydrocarbons) and aldehydes, which isn't nice to breathe can be toxic to wildlife and humans. The absence of chlorine in the structure does prevent the nasty dioxins, but I still would pack the PET plastic out.

[vtflyfish]

Originally Posted by dmartenvt

My guess (as an environmental chemist) is that burning PET plastic at regular campfire temps has the potential of creating PAH's (polyaromatic hydrocarbons) and aldehydes, which isn't nice to breathe can be toxic to wildlife and humans. The absence of chlorine in the structure does prevent the nasty dioxins, but I still would pack the PET plastic out.

Very interesting! So from a chemists perspective are any commonly used packaging materials safe to burn at campfire temperatures? Your answer will either kill off or infinitely extend this debate.

[Zach]

Outdoor burning of trash is prohibited in NY anyway, so I think it would be best not to. If I carry it in I can carry it out and that has worked for me so far.
Zach

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Zach

Outdoor burning of trash is prohibited in NY anyway, so I think it would be best not to. If I carry it in I can carry it out and that has worked for me so far.
Zach

Sucks being in the minority!
At least we're up to half.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Justin

Sucks being in the minority!
At least we're up to half.

whatever booger burner

[Justin]

Originally Posted by mike

whatever booger burner

One of my favorite things to do after a long hike is to sit next to a warm campfire, and clip my overgrown toenails & toss the clippings into the fire (toe cheese & all) and watch it all burn & melt...talk about gooey!