Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > Current Affairs and Environmental Issues > Current and Historical Affairs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-14-2015, 12:26 PM   #21
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdstrong View Post
You want to have a few friends meet you on the summit, have a quiet celebration, maybe drink a few beers that one of them carried in, maybe a bottle of wine, champagne even... congrats and good for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
Would the outrage be any less if each participant had carried a 6 pack, rather than the group having a keg ?
That's a really touchy subject, and I think it's the matter of discretion.

I certainly would not be offended if someone was drinking on a summit or having a small, personal celebration, regardless of what they were drinking from.

I think the issue here becomes the manner in which they behave with their celebration and alcohol consumption. It simply does not support a manner which is mature and respectful towards others.

In my mind this is the issue.

It's no different than the group who decides to make noise until 2 am in morning while camping.

Respect for others. This should be held in the highest regard, ESPECIALLY on public land.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 12:37 PM   #22
backwoodsman
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 277
At least they kept their clothes on , for now.
backwoodsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 12:49 PM   #23
Holdstrong
Member
 
Holdstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
Would the outrage be any less if each participant had carried a 6 pack, rather than the group having a keg ?
I think we can all tell the difference between a rowdy, inappropriate party and a fun but quiet and respectful celebration. Independent of who carried what. The keg is an issue - for me - only in as much as it all but guarantees the former. So to answer your question, no, my outrage would be no less if everyone carried 6 packs and proceeded to shotgun and funnel their way to a rowdy summit party. And I would have no outrage if someone carried a small keg of beer to the top and they kept it under wraps and all sat around enjoying a beer while having a quiet, respectful celebration.

There are standards of common courtesy and decency based on where you happen to be. I can think of dozens and dozens of places where a frat style keg party is not appropriate or acceptable. The summit of a mountain in forever wild lands just happens to be one of them. That this is potentially up for debate truly concerns me.
Holdstrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 12:52 PM   #24
Neil
Kayak-46
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,833
Chances are the kid won't have to pay anything. It can be very difficult, after the fact, to prove that all (or 15 of) the participants were part of the same group. The planning thread and all other posts on FB have been erased.

This was a problem with huge groups (greater than 50) being organized on a Quebec meet-up group (Bougex). The rangers, who had been informed, said that the groups would get spread out along the trail and then everybody denied knowing everyone else.
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 01:18 PM   #25
randomscooter
Native Earthling
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scooterville, NY
Posts: 1,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Chances are the kid won't have to pay anything. It can be very difficult, after the fact, to prove that all (or 15 of) the participants were part of the same group. The planning thread and all other posts on FB have been erased.

This was a problem with huge groups (greater than 50) being organized on a Quebec meet-up group (Bougex). The rangers, who had been informed, said that the groups would get spread out along the trail and then everybody denied knowing everyone else.
I hope that doesn't dissuade people from speaking their minds, or reporting offenses. Whether the guy gets off or not is less important than his being called out for his inappropriate behavior. What he does with that experience will play a role in shaping his future. As well as that of others who might have thought his behavior was reasonable.
__________________
Scooting here and there
Through the woods and up the peaks
Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


"Pushing the limits of easy."™
randomscooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 01:19 PM   #26
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
I once saw a group of guys smoking a joint and hooting & hollering on the summit of Pharaoh Mountain, and I thought to myself..."How rude! They didn't even ask me if wanted to join them."
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 01:20 PM   #27
rdl
Member
 
rdl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Aurora, NY
Posts: 606
Quote:
I can think of dozens and dozens of places where a frat style keg party is not appropriate or acceptable
How do you know this was a "frat style keg party" ? I saw one picture of three people possibly mugging for the camera, and pictures of other people standing around talking with glasses of beer in their hand.

I don't disagree that the summit of any mountain is not an appropriate venue for actions associated with frat keg parties. I just don't see any evidence of that behavior nor have I heard from anyone who was on the summit to give a first hand account of how raucous the partying was.
rdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 01:30 PM   #28
Neil
Kayak-46
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomscooter View Post
I hope that doesn't dissuade people from speaking their minds, or reporting offenses. Whether the guy gets off or not is less important than his being called out for his inappropriate behavior. What he does with that experience will play a role in shaping his future. As well as that of others who might have thought his behavior was reasonable.
Agreed!

Of interest is one of my FB friends and ADKHP member who posted that he got booted from the Aspiring 46ers FB group for reminding people to respect group size and not to take glass containers.
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 02:14 PM   #29
Trail Boss
Member
 
Trail Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
..he got booted from the Aspiring 46ers FB group for reminding people to respect group size and not to take glass containers.
A sober dose of reality delivered during a roaring party? No wonder he was shown the door!



Perhaps I harbor an old-fashioned notion of what it is to be an ADK 46er (club member or not). Hiking 46 summits without developing respect and appreciation for the backcountry is falling short of the original challenge.

For aspiring 46ers, the ADK 46er challenge is more than crossing off 46 list items. Please adopt their principles as well as their list (which, as you know, doesn't contain the 46 highest peaks in the Adirondacks). That's the total challenge and not just the athletic part of scaling peaks.

The ADK 46ers' adherence to LNT principles is praiseworthy. LNT is effectively a set of "good neighbor" policies for the backcountry. Here they are but completely opposite to their original wording. These "Anti-LNT Principles" sound like standard hiking practices decades ago!

The Seven Anti-LNT Principles
or
How to ruin it for everyone


Do no planning or preparation.
  • Ignore regulations.
  • Prepare for nothing.
  • Hike only in peak season.
  • Visit in large groups.
  • Mark your passage with flagging/paint/cairns/blazes.

Travel and camp anywhere.
  • Walk on the grass.
  • Camp at the water's edge.
  • Good campsites are made not found.

Dispose of waste improperly.
  • Pack it in, leave it there.
  • Deposit human waste in piles anywhere.
  • Decorate the area with toilet paper.
  • Wash dishes and yourself directly in streams and lakes.

Never leave what you find.
  • Don't forget the past; bring cultural objects home.
  • Take whatever rocks and plants you find.
  • Introduce non-native species.
  • Build structures, furniture, and dig trenches.

Maximize campfire impacts.
  • You're surrounded by fuel; campfires rule.
  • Never use an existing fire-ring.
  • Cut down trees. Make enormous fires.
  • Leave your fire burning for the next group.

Disrespect wildlife.
  • Get as close as you can to wildlife.
  • Feed animals. It makes them come closer.
  • Leave food and trash anywhere.
  • Let your pets roam free.
  • Approach wildlife anytime including mating, nesting, raising young, etc.

Be inconsiderate of other visitors.
  • It's your hike, do as you please wherever you please.
  • Force other hikers out of your way.
  • Spook pack animals out of your way.
  • Take breaks, and camp, directly on the trail.
  • Let nature know who's the loudest SOB on the planet.


(The actual LNT Principles.)
Trail Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 02:34 PM   #30
Holdstrong
Member
 
Holdstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
How do you know this was a "frat style keg party" ?
The keg stands tipped me off.
Holdstrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 04:54 PM   #31
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
So anyone up for some keg stands at the next forum gathering?
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 05:32 PM   #32
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
So anyone up for some keg stands at the next forum gathering?
No. But I'll share my joint with you if you are OK with burning some paper.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 05:43 PM   #33
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
No. But I'll share my joint with you if you are OK with burning some paper.
Sounds good, as long as you don't throw the roach in the fire while I'm grilling my rib-eye.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 05:50 PM   #34
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Sounds good, as long as you don't throw the roach in the fire while I'm grilling my rib-eye.
I promise I won't. But I might need a rib-eye of my own as well
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 06:16 PM   #35
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
I promise I won't. But I might need a rib-eye of my own as well
Better yet, we'll bring the 'Hooka' so everyone can enjoy, eliminating the need to burn any paper.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 06:36 PM   #36
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
How do you know this was a "frat style keg party" ? I saw one picture of three people possibly mugging for the camera, and pictures of other people standing around talking with glasses of beer in their hand.

I don't disagree that the summit of any mountain is not an appropriate venue for actions associated with frat keg parties. I just don't see any evidence of that behavior nor have I heard from anyone who was on the summit to give a first hand account of how raucous the partying was.
Just an FYI, there is an "anonymous" comment on the most recent Almanac story who claims to have been a part of the summit party...

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/20....html#comments
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 07:51 PM   #37
TCD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,473
I like "Becca"'s comment on the article.

I read the aricle, all the comments, and this thread. Someone please tell me if I missed it...was there ONE PERSON who was ACTUALLY THERE who was offended by these guys having fun? Of course there's an internet full of people who are perpetually offended...yawn.

For God's sake, lighten up and have some fun. Or we might as well all just move to NJ, and declare the ADKs a "true wilderness" where no one is allowed to go at all (as has been discussed before in this forum).
TCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 08:13 PM   #38
Trail Boss
Member
 
Trail Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 737
Mr. Bhatt expressed his side of the story. He states the party was not in his honor, he did not organize it or the hiking group, and he is being singled out because he posted the photo.

His response is a curious blend of plausibility and naiveté. I suggest he learn the definition of the public-relations term "optics". If you're going to publish a photo to represent your low-key, easy-going, inoffensive, and responsible summit party, don't use the one of a woman held upside down over a beer keg.

Like I said earlier, all one could conclude from the first photo was that it was probably a loud party. He claims it wasn't even that because no one complained. OK, that's indicative of nothing because non-celebrants may feel their complaints will fall on deaf ears (or worse). Nevertheless, let's assume he's right about the volume (and why not, I wasn't there).

As Neil pointed out, making the charges stick will be difficult. Mr. Bhatt has denied organizing an oversized group. Apparently his group was small and the other groups were friends and friends of friends. How they all hiked to the same summit on the same day isn't explained nor why a "small group" would carry a beer keg. You'd bring a keg for big group, except no one knew it would become a big group, right? It just turned out that way.
Trail Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 08:28 PM   #39
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post
I like "Becca"'s comment on the article.

I read the aricle, all the comments, and this thread. Someone please tell me if I missed it...was there ONE PERSON who was ACTUALLY THERE who was offended by these guys having fun? Of course there's an internet full of people who are perpetually offended...yawn.

For God's sake, lighten up and have some fun. Or we might as well all just move to NJ, and declare the ADKs a "true wilderness" where no one is allowed to go at all (as has been discussed before in this forum).
I agree, and I liked the comment about there should be a legion for those who carry a keg to the summit of all 46.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 08:58 PM   #40
rdl
Member
 
rdl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Aurora, NY
Posts: 606
Quote:
I read the aricle, all the comments, and this thread. Someone please tell me if I missed it...was there ONE PERSON who was ACTUALLY THERE who was offended by these guys having fun? Of course there's an internet full of people who are perpetually offended...yawn.

For God's sake, lighten up and have some fun.
I agree as well.
rdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.