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Old 05-31-2017, 06:13 PM   #21
Justin
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One thing that I find a little odd...
Many North Hudson residents (including Town Supervisor Ron Moore) have expressed the desire to have more vistors into their area, and help disperse some of the heavy hiker traffic in the adjacent High Peaks region...

Yet, the nearest public trailhead to exit 29 is not even marked (Bass Lake's western trail) and has been blocked by a parked tractor-trailer for the past several years. And a few of the other nearby trailheads are also unmarked, and/or not even plowed during winter.

What gives?

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Old 05-31-2017, 06:13 PM   #22
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....political climate of the Adirondacks, and it's predominantly libertarian and conservative. In that sense, these communities need to take care of themselves,
Well lookee here! Some folks are enterprisingly "taking care of themselves". Cooking meth in the Dacks.

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Old 05-31-2017, 07:06 PM   #23
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And medical marijuana.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:23 PM   #24
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Well lookee here! Some folks are enterprisingly "taking care of themselves". Cooking meth in the Dacks.

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It's a high margin buisiness! Haven't you seen Breaking Bad?
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:48 PM   #25
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... they [Canadian lumber companies] have economy of scale (access to a lot of trees) and they get subsidized access to that wood (most of the Canadian companies are leasing crown land from the Canadian government for a cheaper price than what American companies have to pay to buy or lease private land here in the States).

If the current administration follows through on one of its promises, the Canadian lumber industry may lose one of its key advantages. And this has been a hot-topic between the two nations for well-over a decade now.
Not so simple and for a longer period of time. The first dispute started in the early 80's and it's been negotiated and re-negotiated ever since.

Canadian federal and provincial governments own most of the land ("Crown land") used for silviculture. Canadian lumber harvesters pay a "stumpage fee" to harvest the trees in a sustainable manner. The stumpage fee is supposed to represent the fair market price of the harvested lumber (cost of production). The never-ending argument is that its often priced lower. That discrepancy represents the allegation of "government subsidies".

The US solution was to apply countervailing duties. The surcharge has been as high as 27%. Perhaps US lumber companies felt shortchanged by "subsidized" Canadian softwood but the US government was collecting the duties.

The agreement gets renegotiated every few years. In case of a dispute, both countries make their case to NAFTA and the WTO and press to rule in their favor.

During one cycle of negotiations, Canada even imposed a duty on its own softwood exports to satisfy US demands that stumpage fees were below fair market-value.

In 2006, NAFTA agreed with the US that Canadian softwood is subsidized so countervailing duties are fair and even the score. Except they calculated the US had been overcharging Canada for years and had to repay the excess amount. The US returned $4.5 billion and Canada agreed to cap its exports to ~1/3 of the total US market. Anything above the 1/3 gets dinged with escalating fees. Horse-trading at its finest.

The story goes on but you can see it's an old one and both sides just want what's best for them and usually find a fair compromise. That's good business.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:59 PM   #26
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Interesting discussion. Glad that it has been noted that many other rural areas are also struggling. North Hudson started as a logging town plus catering to those traveling north/south on the "Great Northern Turnpike" (today's Rt. 9) or east/west on the Cedar Point Road between Port Henry and the mines at Tahawus.

Fast forward to the era of the automobile, and North Hudson did fairly well with drivers stopping for the night at various motels along Rt. 9. Then Frontiertown created an additional reason to stop. The southern approach to Frontiertown almost looked like an "exit ramp" from Rt. 9. For many years that attraction did very well and hired a lot of local people.

With the Northway, Frontiertown tried to adapt with the entrance station/restaurant/train ride to the attraction. Unfortunately, many fewer chose to exit the Northway to visit, in part because the era of simply traveling from one tourist attraction had come and gone.

Maybe the new active generation is now out hiking the trails and causing those problems, but I don't see much hope for North Hudson - even with the Governor's grandiose proposals for the "Gateway".
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:52 AM   #27
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Mr.Kawfey is correct as far as the economic region goes. Walmarts, autozones, dollarstores, and chain hotels funnel money out of a regional economy.

I have no doubts that there is still some money to be made from timber harvesting, and I also think that it should be a component of a well-managed forest (outside of the designated wilderness areas). I also think that if there were truly real money to be made, timber companies would get access - it's the way things work. But I don't think the margins are that healthy to sustain some sort of boom in the Adirondacks. That economy no longer exists like it once did.

Broad band internet and work from home would be great.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:58 AM   #28
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There are three hikers' tunnels under the Northway between exits 29 and 30. Wouldn't constructing trails from them into the Dix wilderness make North Hudson more of a hikers' destination? Or, at least, publicizing that area for 'whacking?
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:50 AM   #29
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Actually, there are 5 of those in that section. And it might help a bit, but the human powered stuff RARELY produces the promised economic benefits. People want easy. People want motors. Look for example at the money generated by an alpine ski area (where a lift does the real work) vs. an XC ski area. So when I read these "studies" about how much $ will come to an area because of this or that human powered recreation, I just chuckle. Never happens.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:01 PM   #30
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Look for example at the money generated by an alpine ski area (where a lift does the real work) vs. an XC ski area.
I want you to look up and publish the numbers for Gore and Whiteface and how much actual profit they make.

Comparing those businesses to each other is like comparing North Hudson to Detroit. There is A LOT more money involved in running a successful dh ski resort than there is running a XC center.

Also many people don't pay for XC skiing because they can do it for free a lot easier than DH skiing, although both can be done for free.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:17 PM   #31
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Actually, there are 5 of those in that section. And it might help a bit, but the human powered stuff RARELY produces the promised economic benefits. People want easy. People want motors. Look for example at the money generated by an alpine ski area (where a lift does the real work) vs. an XC ski area. So when I read these "studies" about how much $ will come to an area because of this or that human powered recreation, I just chuckle. Never happens.
Anyone remember Brenda's Grocery Store, where the North Hudson post office is now?

A family friend owns some property on an old campground loop off of Duntley Road. I've spent a lot of time in that area as a kid with our family & friends, and exploring around. We'd always stop in to say hi to Brenda and pick up some groceries for the week/weekend. All those years going up there and driving up & down Route 9 enroute to other trailheads, never even knowing that those culverts & trails existed.

It definintely seems clear that the Town of North Hudson does not really care about the "hiking" crowd...
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:27 PM   #32
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http://www.suncommunitynews.com/arti...lans-revealed/
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:36 PM   #33
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It definintely seems clear that the Town of North Hudson does not really care about the "hiking" crowd...
'Tis a shame because it's a friggin' great area. I don't know what it is, but I REALLY like it there.

I still remember my first drive down Blue Ridge Rd, I nearly crashed multiple times because I couldn't keep my eyes on the road. Hoffman Notch and Dix are absolutely spectacular places to hike.
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:45 PM   #34
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I just discovered that JOHNNY CASH played Frontier Town in 1983. That is the coolest thing ever man!


The Man.

Old photo of buildings

The restaurant

Crowds at Frontier Town

Photo of Frontier Town 1957

Frontier Town Motel back in the day

The Frontier Town church building today being reclaimed by nature.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:35 PM   #35
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I want you to look up and publish the numbers for Gore and Whiteface and how much actual profit they make.

Comparing those businesses to each other is like comparing North Hudson to Detroit. There is A LOT more money involved in running a successful dh ski resort than there is running a XC center.

Also many people don't pay for XC skiing because they can do it for free a lot easier than DH skiing, although both can be done for free.
Gore and Whiteface have the advantage of being state owned.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:54 PM   #36
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I spy with my little eye ... the water-boarding pond!




An outlaw would be perched at the end of a teeter-totter and dunked into the pond. Other outlaws were given mock hangings. Geez, that startled me when I witnessed it as a kid. "Family entertainment" for Boomer kids. Yikes.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:36 PM   #37
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See the "fort" with the overhung second story? Here it is a year or two ago...
The dunking pond would be just out of sight to the right
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:57 PM   #38
montcalm
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Gore and Whiteface have the advantage of being state owned.
I'm not sure how that is an advantage other that when they lose money or need to upgrade they can take money from NYS coffers, which they do.


In NYS, I'd rather be in the meth business than the ski hill business.
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:05 PM   #39
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And if you think something like dh skiing in the Adirondacks is so easy, and a way to make money, by all means, PLEASE go to the bank, get a loan, buy Big Tupper and have at it.

You can be the hero to that whole town when you succeed, but you won't, so unless you have a million or so to flush, get these ideas out of your head.
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:43 PM   #40
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I want you to look up and publish the numbers for Gore and Whiteface and how much actual profit they make.

Comparing those businesses to each other is like comparing North Hudson to Detroit. There is A LOT more money involved in running a successful dh ski resort than there is running a XC center.

Also many people don't pay for XC skiing because they can do it for free a lot easier than DH skiing, although both can be done for free.
Of course I'm not talking about the "operation" itself. I know that these operations don't make a lot of money. But they drive tons of traffic to the local area. Compare the newly resurgent North Creek (Gore) with Upper Benson (Lapland). 'Nuff said.
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