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Marcellus Shale: An Environmental Disaster In The Making

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  • In my neck of the woods ,Yates County, we have a very large Mennonite population. Starting 25 years ago they migrated north from Penn. and established a thriving community.Their farms and associated support businesses are doing well.They bought up and continue to buy failing "English" farms.

    The farms are not large corporate farms,most with less than 100 cows.
    It is a whole different world . You can immediately and easily tell the difference between a "Dutch" farm and an "English" farm. One looks prosperous and picture post card neat, the other looks like a junk yard.(Of course not in all cases).

    What are they doing differently? It is a FAMILY farm....supporting a family that does not embrace modern consumerism, hence they have less expenses. Their work ethic is very strong.

    That and their community(church) cooperation.

    Now to figure out if they are in favor of Fracking...
    Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

    When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
    Henry David Thoreau

    CL50-#23

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    • Originally posted by WinterWarlock View Post
      So the real point is not that the farms are being kept because of the fracking, but that they get to keep their property. I'd guess that once the rigs roll in with their retention ponds, heavy duty vehicles, etc, a 'small' farm won't have much land to left to farm...so they substitute the income from the gas. And quite frankly, based on what I've read, I would not want to be eating anything from a farm sharing land and water resources with a fracking well.
      And once the gas runs out and the checks stop coming, what do you have?
      Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

      When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
      Henry David Thoreau

      CL50-#23

      Comment


      • Originally posted by chairrock View Post
        And once the gas runs out and the checks stop coming, what do you have?
        Muck
        “Death is the only wise advisor that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.” Carlos Castenada

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pumpkin QAAD View Post

          Restricting your diet to properties that don't utilize any of the natural resources would be tough, or probably impossible.
          Impossible primarily because, conveniently, there are currently no requirements or regulations to inform the consumer. I suspect they know that if it were known, they'd no longer be able to sell most, if not all, of what is produced.
          “Death is the only wise advisor that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.” Carlos Castenada

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WinterWarlock View Post
            Impossible primarily because, conveniently, there are currently no requirements or regulations to inform the consumer. I suspect they know that if it were known, they'd no longer be able to sell most, if not all, of what is produced.
            There's probably worse things getting done to food, without consumer knowledge, than fracking a well on the property.

            For what it's worth I know several farmers that know the health of their animals and would not risk their business if to frack a well their property were turned to muck and their animals sickened.

            I know that's small consolation to those philisophically opposed to fracking.
            A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

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            • New York should put a large tax on gas production ($1 or $2 per MMBTU) to ensure that the gas isn't fracked at low prices and use the proceeds to ensure clean water and to preserve other parts of the state pristinely.


              Of course it'll end up being more money for the government to spend on entitlements so I am opposed to my own suggestion.
              A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Pumpkin QAAD View Post
                There's probably worse things getting done to food, without consumer knowledge, than fracking a well on the property.

                For what it's worth I know several farmers that know the health of their animals and would not risk their business if to frack a well their property were turned to muck and their animals sickened.

                I know that's small consolation to those philisophically opposed to fracking.

                PQ,

                For my part, as I stated in my earlier post, I am not philosophically opposed but feel we are in the dark until after the damage is done. If you look at the link I posted, a lot of the sickness/death was to livestock. I am sure a much larger percentage "appeared" normal and the product went to market. Toluene, benzene and all.
                “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                ― Cormac McCarthy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Glen View Post
                  PQ,

                  For my part, as I stated in my earlier post, I am not philosophically opposed but feel we are in the dark until after the damage is done. If you look at the link I posted, a lot of the sickness/death was to livestock. I am sure a much larger percentage "appeared" normal and the product went to market. Toluene, benzene and all.
                  I wish it was from a reliable source. Unfortunately the extreme anti-crowd on this subject have gone bonkers (including the organization responsible for the data you posted). I wish there was some neutral source, thus is self-interest politics I guess.
                  A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pumpkin QAAD View Post
                    I wish it was from a reliable source. Unfortunately the extreme anti-crowd on this subject have gone bonkers (including the organization responsible for the data you posted). I wish there was some neutral source, thus is self-interest politics I guess.
                    Exactly.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pumpkin QAAD View Post
                      I wish it was from a reliable source. Unfortunately the extreme anti-crowd on this subject have gone bonkers (including the organization responsible for the data you posted). I wish there was some neutral source, thus is self-interest politics I guess.

                      That list was simply a compilation. If you look at each case there is a link to the original source. Surely they can't all be in on the farce?
                      “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                      ― Cormac McCarthy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Glen View Post
                        That list was simply a compilation. If you look at each case there is a link to the original source. Surely they can't all be in on the farce?
                        I did look at a few and that was my conclusion. Typically one can sue for damages but most of the time these do tend to be untrue allegations. But I would definately agree that there are dangers associated with this type of drilling however not the kind of dangers depicted in gasland and behind a lot of these frivilous lawsuits.

                        One concern I have is during the flooding we had (last year or the year before) would these waste pools get washed out before they could get loaded off site or "treated". I know there was an incident with chemicals getting into the Deleware this way and that is unacceptable.
                        A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Glen View Post
                          That list was simply a compilation. If you look at each case there is a link to the original source. Surely they can't all be in on the farce?
                          I'm sure not all of them are a farce. Can you weed out the ones that you think might be real? Sorry, but I bet you can't and that's not a slam on you. It's just more murky water to try and look through.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by St.Regis View Post
                            I'm sure not all of them are a farce. Can you weed out the ones that you think might be real? Sorry, but I bet you can't and that's not a slam on you. It's just more murky water to try and look through.

                            St. Regis,

                            Agreed, so I say better safe than sorry. This is a case where regulations and enforcement along with bonds required for eventual cleanup are necessary. We are talking about adding pennies to the end user cost. Probably a net savings if it was done right and you could offset the legal costs and hush money paid. I own a business in a heavily regulated industry, so I am not some radical without real world experience. (I'm not suggesting you were labeling me as such).
                            “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                            ― Cormac McCarthy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pumpkin QAAD View Post
                              There's probably worse things getting done to food, without consumer knowledge, than fracking a well on the property.

                              For what it's worth I know several farmers that know the health of their animals and would not risk their business if to frack a well their property were turned to muck and their animals sickened.

                              I know that's small consolation to those philosophically opposed to fracking.
                              I'm not opposed to fracking, in general, but based on what we know, and more importantly what we don't know, I'm opposed to the method in which it is practiced today. If the industry wants the general public to be more supportive, then they need to be more open than they have been. And two things lead me to be concerned...one, their vigorous objection to being forced to 'tell all'. and two, their automatic labeling of those who disagree with them as "anti's".

                              You're right - our food supply in the US, and most industrialized nations, is a mess. I do what I can to avoid processed foods, and buy as local as I am able...it's not perfect, but it's what we have. And soon, when my son is out of high school, I will relocate to another country...
                              “Death is the only wise advisor that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.” Carlos Castenada

                              Comment


                              • If Indian Point didn't straddle the Hudson I would agree with your line of thinking.
                                A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

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