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Old 11-10-2017, 10:46 AM   #81
snapper
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Not trying to be a wise guy here but check current regs on whether snowmobiles are considered "motorized vehicles" or not. Years ago I met up with some snowmobilers on a local XC ski trail and asked why, in spite of the "No Motor Vehicles" sign at the trailhead, did they continue to ride their sleds on the trail? The one person I spoke too was very polite and he said he understood my question but to the best of his knowledge, at least at that time, snowmobiles were not considered vehicles because they operated via tracks; not wheels. He suggested I call the local DEC office to get confirmation on that; which I did. Incredibly, the person I spoke with in the regional DEC office said the operator of the snowmobile was correct.

Now, I don't know if both parties were pulling my leg or the laws have been changed but it might be worth looking into. I don't drive/ride them so I really don't know much about the current rules & regs that oversee their operation. At this point I just do my best to stay away from any location where they might be operated when I'm skiing or snowshoeing.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

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Old 11-11-2017, 09:38 PM   #82
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That would be something if snowmobiling would be exempt in a wilderness area. Drones are not exempt.
https://dronedj.com/2017/11/08/canad...ks-wilderness/
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:47 PM   #83
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Not trying to be a wise guy here but check current regs on whether snowmobiles are considered "motorized vehicles" or not. Years ago I met up with some snowmobilers on a local XC ski trail and asked why, in spite of the "No Motor Vehicles" sign at the trailhead, did they continue to ride their sleds on the trail? The one person I spoke too was very polite and he said he understood my question but to the best of his knowledge, at least at that time, snowmobiles were not considered vehicles because they operated via tracks; not wheels. He suggested I call the local DEC office to get confirmation on that; which I did. Incredibly, the person I spoke with in the regional DEC office said the operator of the snowmobile was correct.
Was this on Pharaoh Road or someplace else?
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:23 AM   #84
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Regarding snowmobile use on State Land within the Forest Preserve...
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document...

And besides, I would think anything that by law needs to be registered at the Department of Motor Vehicles would indeed be considered a "motor vehicle".

Last edited by Justin; 11-13-2017 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:27 PM   #85
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Was this on Pharaoh Road or someplace else?
Probably not Pharoah, Snapper lives near Cooperstown.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:49 PM   #86
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Probably not Pharoah, Snapper lives near Cooperstown.
Ok thanks.
Just in case there's any confusion, snowmobiles are not allowed in the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness, or any designated Wilderness Area for that matter.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:34 PM   #87
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Regarding snowmobile use on State Land within the Forest Preserve...
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document...

And besides, I would think anything that by law needs to be registered at the Department of Motor Vehicles would indeed be considered a "motor vehicle".
Nope Just re-registered my trailer.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:18 AM   #88
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Nope Just re-registered my trailer.
Ha...so did I.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:51 PM   #89
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Justin - Sorry...just getting back after being away for a bit. Yes, this happened on state forest land in Otsego County; the Milford State Forest to be exact. I've not looked deeply into the regulations and didn't think about the "wilderness" designation being different so that might be the issue at play here; state forest is not wilderness after all.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

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Old 11-14-2017, 05:22 PM   #90
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Ok thanks Snap, that makes much more sense than a snowmobile is technically not considered a motorized vehicle.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:48 PM   #91
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I can add a little to this discussion. I have been visiting Pharaoh Lake since the 60's. Back then the only parking lot was at Mill Brook. It was common to see family vehicles there. No one ever parked at the new parking area, it didn't really exist. The Mill Brook area is locally known as the Culverfields (sp). I believe it was named after homesteaders who lived there long ago. I've looked but never found any foundations in this area. If you look at the older maps you can see there are two routes to the Mill Brook parking area. There is also a long abandoned route from the west. If you look around you can still find it. Unfortunately it crosses private land before it reaches Ernest Smith Road, near Adirondack. So this is not a viable approach option. In the 60's, the bridge over Mill Brook was a double track and strong enough for jeeps to cross. A local man, Norman Mead, would bring us kids all the way in with his surplus army truck to go fishing. The second water crossing at Pharaoh Lake Brook was accomplished by fording as there was only a footbridge at this location. Once you arrived at the lake you were greeted by a ranger cabin in a open field. There was a large sloping deck down to the water where NYSDEC rented canoes for $2 a day. The ranger had a row boat with an outboard motor that he patrolled the lake with. He would visit the lean-tos and collect the garbage (I vaguely remember metal garbage cans at the lean-to's but I may be wrong), ferry the garbage to the ranger cabin, and truck it out with his jeep. Once NYSDEC decided to transition from interior control to peripheral control, the decision was to remove the interior ranger cabins (with exceptions - a few favorites remained; Marcy Dam, John's Brook, Lake Colden, I guess I can't blame them but I digress). The Pharaoh Lake ranger cabin was not the only ranger cabin removed. Duck Hole, Shattuck Clearing, the West Canada Lakes, and, I'm sure, many more were also removed. My first editorial - I, for one, have never felt that a ranger cabin detracted from my wilderness experiences. I miss them. With the removal of the ranger cabin came the removal of the jeep bridge at Mill Brook - it was replaced with a foot bridge thus ending 4 wheel drive access but not motorized access. I continue to visit the Pharaoh Lake area all seasons and have seen snowmobile tracks across the frozen lake. I've also seen quad tracks past the Mill Brook bridge as a foot bridge is still wide enough for quads. The first time I visited Pharaoh Lake on my own I rode my "stingray" bike all the way to the lake. I then hiked around the lake and up Pharaoh Mountain. I was greeted in the cab of the fire tower by a fire observer (sorry, I don't recall his name) who was spending the summer on the summit. He was living in the cabin (long since gone) with his wife and young child. He used a root cellar to keep his spoilable provisions cold and safe from bears. It was a wonderful experience meeting him. I miss being able to bike into Pharaoh, they are not allowed. You are allowed to ride a horse to the lake or haul a wheeled canoe cart to the lake but no bikes (there is a sign next to the register). As far as thefts in the area, a few years back we had the "hermit of Brant Lake". He camped on Park Mountain, not far from the new parking lot. I never did hear any reports of him bothering campers at Pharaoh Lake. He did manage to break into my camp and relieve me of some fine spirits but that's another story. And once, back in 2010, I spent a week on the north end of the lake during late October. When we returned to our truck we found the tires slashed. ALL FOUR!! It ended up being a wacko who was angry at the world but regretted his actions and turned himself in. He paid for the tires. So, overall, I consider the area safe. One last thought, which do you prefer? Pharaoh or Pharoah, I see both commonly used. The current guidebooks and maps use Pharaoh. This thread is using Pharoah.

Last edited by Dave Bourque; 04-06-2018 at 05:07 PM.. Reason: grammer
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:14 PM   #92
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Dave,
Great post & thanks for sharing!
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:45 PM   #93
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Dave, Thanks, that was some nice reading for a "newbie" who first went to Pharaoh in 2000.
I use Pharaoh, that's how the Egyptians spelled it 5000 years ago and by gods, that's the way I'll keep spelling it.
I was there one winter when some snowmobilers came in for a spin around the lake, it was not the highlight of the trip.
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:45 AM   #94
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The sign on Beaver Pond Rd says “Pharoah Lake Road”.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:48 AM   #95
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Pharoah/Pharaoh.

Dave Bourque but that was a great write up on Pharaoh. My memories are from hiking in from Curtis Read Scout camp in the 70s, just over Mt. Stevens.It was about an eight mile hike, with a two night outpost. the way back was quicker as we avoided the "Gap" and took the "B" line right over Mt. Stevens. I remember the Ranger cabin and rowboat rentals, one year we did rent one, later years they were discontinued.
My later years maybe around 78/79 ish, I went up to the lake, hunting season. My van was broken into and the stereo, speakers, binoculars were stolen. I figured it was the hunters who were checking us out as we were preparing for the trek up from the parking lot by Pharoah lake brook. If this guy wants to reimburse me for these items I would accept,. I want to thank him that he didn't break a window, just forced the vent window open.
Don't leave anything of value visible.
My first year we rowed out to the island from site D, they lettered them then, it was a nudist colony out there, no women though.
Another time I portaged a canoe in with my friend Bob who later became a Ranger at Camp Read. It is a very nice lake to explore with a canoe, especially split rock bay and the spring over near there, great drinking water, I wonder if it is still active. I think a trip back this summer is in order.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:56 AM   #96
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Last time I went by, the spring was running. It needed a bit of a clean-out, but running.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:06 AM   #97
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The DEC also added 4 new designated sites to the lake recently (3 in 2016 and 1 in 2017).

The 3 sites added in 2016 are all along the north end of the lake, along Split Rock Bay. These were sorely needed due to the increased amount of use by backpackers coming in from Crane Pond. All of these are nice sites and are right on the water, although one of them is pretty small and only has room for a single tent.

The single site added in 2017 was an overflow site near Lean-to #3, set back away from the water. This site has a really nice fire pit built up against a rock outcrop.
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Old 03-28-2018, 05:04 PM   #98
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Picture set of some bushwhack hikes last spring.
http://adkhighpeaks.com/neil/outdoor...aoh/index.html
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:25 PM   #99
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Picture set of some bushwhack hikes last spring.
http://adkhighpeaks.com/neil/outdoor...aoh/index.html
Great photos Neil, thanks for sharing!
Lots of familiar views in there...but no Devils Washdish?
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #100
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To piggyback on DSettahr's comment regarding the new sites (they are penciled in on most of the maps posted at the trail registers), last year thunderboxes were added to most if not all of the sites around the lake. They were sorely needed, so on your next visit look for the signs to the toilets near the campsites.
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