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Old 02-05-2016, 04:34 PM   #21
Hard Scrabble
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G,
There were mountain lions in the ADK's back in the 1800's as evidenced by geological names. Panther Pond, Panther Mountain, does Panther Gorge ring a bell?
Sadly or not, they're gone. Unable to coexist with human encroachment.
The last bounty payment that I can remember was for coyotes back in the late 60's or early 70's.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:15 PM   #22
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I am not saying they weren't there. However I know of a Salmon River that never had a salmon swim in it. I also read a second hand account where a hunter had a good winter killing Mountain Lions. When I read the original account the hunter called them "Mountain Tigers" and upon researching further it becomes clear he had a good winter killing Bobcats. Maybe Panther Mountain was named after a Bobcat? I know oldtimers who call Lake Trout a salmon.

From everything I have read originally most of the Adirondacks had no deer. It was moose country. Apparently the deer showed up after much of the Adirondacks were logged. Then the deer population exploded and moose disappeared. How did Cougars fare with moose? Since predators go where the prey go might the cougar have followed the deer into the Adirondacks?

Lots of questions.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:16 PM   #23
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It is quite possible that some mountain lions are living in the ADK's. Why? Because one traveled through NY state from the Dakotas on his way to Connecticut where he had a date with fate. So we know that it is possible. That may explain the sightings.

How many? How many moose are there? How would you know unless you estimated their numbers? I used to know some people from Ohio where I once had a firewood business who swore they saw panthers or lions. I knew someone who had a deer preserve for hunters. About fifty deer were in a location of about one half square mile. Not one was seen by any hunters for a week. What does that tell you? Is it because they don't want to be discovered or because the hunters were not in the right place at the right time?

Just because the sightings are purely by chance does not indicate that there is NOT a small population in the 9 million acres of the park Let us wait for more reports before we unequivocally state that there haven't been any since the 1800's. Even discounting those that were once pets and were released illegally into the wilds.

The mountain lions seen in California in the hills where people jog certainly have had no problem coexisting with "human encroachment." Animals of prey are very adaptable for example the bears who raid the dumpsters in campgrounds. Bears do not generally leave an area which they have frequented even though they encounter humans who camp or hike. That is why state officials have to relocate them sometime many miles from where they have become a "nuisance".

I believe the mountain lions here in the east were hunted to extinction, same as the wolves. Then when numbers became too low to reproduce they were seen less and less until they disappeared. Same with the buffalo out West. Where food is plentiful be it game or browse, anything is possible. Just as two legged animals can be pretty damn smart and adaptable so can the four legged variety. Comments?
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:11 AM   #24
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In Jay Ohern’s book Life with Noah on page 174 Red Smith tells about two sightings of mountain lions, I have old journals from the 30s that tells about seeing one waking below camp on the Coldriver.It was during hunting season. As remote as it is there might be back in there an no one would know .I agree with Schultz.
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Old 02-06-2016, 04:18 PM   #25
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The occasional sightings doesn't surprise me. We have tons of coyotes yet in 40 years of deer hunting I've never seen one. The first day I had my game camera I was shocked to see 3 coyotes 20 yards in back of my house.

Also had photographed 12 bucks in my orchard in the weeks up to deer season and yet the general consensus among locals was there were no bucks and it was the worst season in at least 25 years.
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Old 02-06-2016, 11:07 PM   #26
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Buck,
We need to look at this in a pragmatic concept.
The members of this forum are well versed and wide ranging.
If and only "if" there was a population of wild mountain lions in the ADK's, someone would have reported it.
Tracks, evidence of kills, etc.
I can't buy in to the conspiracy issue.
Think about it, why in the world would the DEC hide evidence?
They didn't conceal the attempt to reintroduce Lynxe.
Fun to talk about around a fire.
Jim
It may have sounded so, but I don't believe there's a conspiracy regarding cougars, or wolves for that matter. Cougar sightings are getting to be old news. The Lake George incident wasn't in the paper until six months after it occurred, when the lion was killed elsewhere.
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:08 PM   #27
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I am not saying they weren't there. However I know of a Salmon River that never had a salmon swim in it. I also read a second hand account where a hunter had a good winter killing Mountain Lions. When I read the original account the hunter called them "Mountain Tigers" and upon researching further it becomes clear he had a good winter killing Bobcats. Maybe Panther Mountain was named after a Bobcat? I know oldtimers who call Lake Trout a salmon.

From everything I have read originally most of the Adirondacks had no deer. It was moose country. Apparently the deer showed up after much of the Adirondacks were logged. Then the deer population exploded and moose disappeared. How did Cougars fare with moose? Since predators go where the prey go might the cougar have followed the deer into the Adirondacks?

Lots of questions.
"G"
Check your history.
Lake Ontario once held a huge population of Landlocked Salmon, as did Lake Champlain.
Thus, the Salmon River.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:48 AM   #28
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Jim,

I know my history well. The Salmon River I am refering to is not that one.
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Last edited by Gman; 02-08-2016 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:25 PM   #29
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OK,
A guessing game?
Which Salmon River were you talking about??
Jim
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Old 02-08-2016, 05:11 PM   #30
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The Salmon River that flows into the Bay of Quinte. Also according to Rich Preall it is doubtful the Salmon River at Malone had a run of salmon.
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Old 02-08-2016, 05:39 PM   #31
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The Salmon River that flows into the Bay of Quinte. Also according to Rich Preall it is doubtful the Salmon River at Malone had a run of salmon.
"G"
When the seas retreated eons past, Atlantic Salmon became "landlocked".
Thus the name.
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Old 02-08-2016, 05:56 PM   #32
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Geez I am glad when the seas retreated there was someone there to give them the right name.

Back on topic Jim.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:32 PM   #33
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Geez I am glad when the seas retreated there was someone there to give them the right name.

Back on topic Jim.

Steady Gman. Steady....
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:58 AM   #34
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Interesting article about Mountain Lions in California.

"Of 83 mountain lions that were legally killed last year and had their stomach contents analyzed, more than half were found to have eaten cats, dogs or other domestic animals,*SFGate*reported. Only five percent had eaten deer, which is said to be the ferocious feline’s favorite food."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/15...?intcmp=hplnws
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:49 PM   #35
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Interesting article about Mountain Lions in California.

"Of 83 mountain lions that were legally killed last year and had their stomach contents analyzed, more than half were found to have eaten cats, dogs or other domestic animals,*SFGate*reported. Only five percent had eaten deer, which is said to be the ferocious feline’s favorite food."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/15...?intcmp=hplnws
I'll accept that California has a problem with cougars. There has been a resident population of those cats in the western states for years.
But we're not talking about that state.
Jim
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:53 PM   #36
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Interesting article about Mountain Lions in California.

"Of 83 mountain lions that were legally killed last year and had their stomach contents analyzed, more than half were found to have eaten cats, dogs or other domestic animals,*SFGate*reported. Only five percent had eaten deer, which is said to be the ferocious feline’s favorite food."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/15...?intcmp=hplnws
What's the deer population like in California? I've always felt that any effort to reintroduce cougars in the ADKs would eventually result in them migrating to the foothills and beyond where there are more deer along with domestic cats and dogs. Not to mention the farm country and livestock.
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:33 PM   #37
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I agree, Buck.
Just like the misguided attempt to introduce Lynx In the ADK's.
California's a different situation.
Hunting Mountain Lions has been outlawed in that state for years and the predator/prey ratio went way out of proportion.
Without hunting, the population of cougars went off scale.
The cats ran out of deer to kill so they moved into the suburbs.
New Jersey has a almost the same problem with black bears.
Jim
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:03 PM   #38
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It just illustrates that humans have no idea how to manage nature.
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:50 PM   #39
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It just illustrates that humans have no idea how to manage nature.
Yep,
We are not the center of the universe.
We do our best.
Jim
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:46 AM   #40
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i believe there is a decent number of mountain lions in the park at any one given time, not saying a steady population but they are there and as others have mentioned it benefits the DEC to deny this, also agreeing with others just because you dont see them doesnt mean they arent there, this year ive seen a few different moose which are supposed to be very uncommon still in the park, also seen two bobcat which very few people see yet from most people i've talked with there are much more bear around than ever before and many were killed but i never once seen a bear or any sign of them, does this mean i can make a claim that there are no bear in new york state?
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