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Old 08-22-2017, 03:49 PM   #21
Hard Scrabble
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Angry

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Originally Posted by dundee View Post
Isn't it spelled secrEcy?
Sorry about that!!!
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:50 PM   #22
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No problem, I cin't spel eether
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:43 PM   #23
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You are missing the point Hard Scrabble...
When brook trout fishing spots which require some effort to reach are broadcast on the internet with pictures of catches included, etc. then those who normally do not have the motivation or energy to research and explore to find them all of a sudden have a new "hot spot" to target. Good ponds can be reduced to fair to poor ponds for years to come by overfishing not to mention the trash that is carried in and dumped by many people these days.

Yes every inch of the Adirondack park has probably been fished at one time or another but it does not get fished every year or often and hard unless it gets broadcast to the masses all at once.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
I really don't understand this.
It's one thing if you protect the location of a "secret pond", but truth be known, there are no secrets.
All of the ponds, lakes and rivers have been hunted and fished for generations.
My favorite deer hunting spot is in the Siamese area, about three miles from the road on Big shanty Mtn.
If someone wants to take the effort to set up a camp there, more power to him.
I would find a kindred soul.
The ADK's belong to all of us.
I'm with you Hard Scrabble. The ADK's belong to all of us who pay taxes and buy licences if we didn't there wouldn't be any secret spots to protect.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Stillhunter View Post
You are missing the point Hard Scrabble...
When brook trout fishing spots which require some effort to reach are broadcast on the internet with pictures of catches included, etc. then those who normally do not have the motivation or energy to research and explore to find them all of a sudden have a new "hot spot" to target. Good ponds can be reduced to fair to poor ponds for years to come by overfishing not to mention the trash that is carried in and dumped by many people these days.

Yes every inch of the Adirondack park has probably been fished at one time or another but it does not get fished every year or often and hard unless it gets broadcast to the masses all at once.
Dec does not stock fish
Build / maintain roads and parking areas for you alone
Most of the fishing spots are on the dec website
Your not the first to fish there and wont be the last
Your not that special
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
Dec does not stock fish
Build / maintain roads and parking areas for you alone
Most of the fishing spots are on the dec website
Your not the first to fish there and wont be the last
Your not that special
Good to know, thanks Captain!

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Old 08-22-2017, 06:30 PM   #27
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Well I tried not to take the bait but.....

This is a public forum, so I declare that I will not reveal my favorite fishing spot, my favorite hunting spot, my Morel honeyhole, my favorite swim hole, or my favorite camping spots.

I would reveal said spots to some on this forum because I know they will take care of "my" spots and they won't reveal them to others.

Yes, the Adirondacks belongs to all, now get out there and find spots that you can call your own, that's half the fun. Plus you can learn and appreciate the big woods more if you apply a little effort.

I wish you all a great adventure finding your spots.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
Dec does not stock fish
Build / maintain roads and parking areas for you alone
Most of the fishing spots are on the dec website
Your not the first to fish there and wont be the last
Your not that special

What's your point genius? Nobody said anything of the sort. You are projecting.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
Respectfully, Glen.
Every square foot of our mountains have been trod on for over 200 years.
Every stream and pond has been fished for that long.
There are no secret spots.
You continue to state the obvious and still miss the point. I won't feed your trolling any further.
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“Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:06 PM   #30
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Not disclosing the hot spot on a fragile Adirondack Brook Trout pond is a cultural more' here. If you were sitting in a local saloon blabbing about ponds, I guarantee someone would take offense. It's called Common courtesy.

No need to reply to me specifically here, as I will be ignoring any response.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:11 PM   #31
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You continue to state the obvious and still miss the point. I won't feed your trolling any further.
Sometimes it hard to spit the hook.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:50 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
Respectfully, Glen.
Every square foot of our mountains have been trod on for over 200 years.
Every stream and pond has been fished for that long.
There are no secret spots.
Jim,

That may be but ponds are dynamic and won't stand much catch-and-kill, especially when some target and keep the biggest fish. This has ruined the potential of several ponds.

One of my faves is cyclical: word gets out that there are big fish. The hordes come in and fish the place out, keeping all the large fish. Four years later it's rinse and repeat. Properly managed, this could be a pond that you'd have a good chance of catching a 5 lb brookie in.

Every currently producing pond in the Adirondacks will suffer the same fate if word gets out in a big way, the way the internet can make possible. Until that dynamic of fishing ponds to death goes away we should be very careful about sharing spots on the internet.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
I really don't understand this.
It's one thing if you protect the location of a "secret pond", but truth be known, there are no secrets.
All of the ponds, lakes and rivers have been hunted and fished for generations.
My favorite deer hunting spot is in the Siamese area, about three miles from the road on Big shanty Mtn.
If someone wants to take the effort to set up a camp there, more power to him.
I would find a kindred soul.
The ADK's belong to all of us.
So where do you fish then? I'm guessing you got some good bullhead spots?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:37 AM   #34
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Many years ago I took a local kid with me to one of my spots in the Star Lake area...it was a tough spot to get to that was off the beaten path...I used to catch and release 16/18 native brookies there constantly. If I ever kept a fish it was because it was foul hooked...
It wasn't too long after I took him there that I began to notice that other folks had been there...I also noticed a drop off in the fish. My spot stopped producing big trout.
There are places that I fish and will take only my sons and wife...if it's one of "my spots", I no longer take anyone other than them. Losing a once in a lifetime honey hole showed me the light.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:46 AM   #35
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Its obvious there are no true "secret" ponds, or mountains, or waterfalls etc.. in the ADKs, and yes, the ADKs belong to all of us. That makes us feel all warm and fuzzy, but I really find it hard to understand why its hard for some people to relate to the importance of secrecy when it comes to posting in public arenas.

Lets say way back when you found a gold mine (literally) or struck oil on land that was open to us all. How many people would rush back to their local saloon, stand on a podium and announce it to the hole town while offering up maps to the exact location? Granted this is an extreme comparison and things didn't exactly work that way, but fish are a resource that many people cherish, especially remote water brook trout. Maybe there is some selfishness mixed in with the desire to protect the resource at hand, but either way this shows a level of care and stewardship imo.

These ponds are places where you can't just park your truck, walk 20 ft to the shore or bank and start fishing. They take work to find, through trial and error, bushwhacking, fish-less trips etc.. If I put in all the work, I surely wouldn't post it on a public forum for others to piggyback off of. I was raised to know that with hard work comes reward. That reward is out there for everyone to discover if they work hard. Most people wouldn't even think of hiking to Pond X that sits 6 miles back in the woods unless someone tipped them off that there were fish in it, bc most don't want to put in all that effort if there is a possibility of the pond being void of fish.

The OP mentioned he didn't understand the deal with secrecy in regards to AKD ponds, but then offered up a very rough location of his favorite hunting spot. Why not offer your favorite fishing spot? These aren't exactly the same thing. Fish are much more vulnerable to over harvest as compared to ADK deer that don't have the densities to begin with. Not picking on you by any means, but do you fish remote ADK ponds? It's hard to explain the passion that some have for ADK brookies, and unless you feel the same way, it may be hard to relate.

Last edited by jman22; 08-23-2017 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: editorial
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:06 AM   #36
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Well said jman22.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jman22 View Post

Lets say way back when you found a gold mine (literally) or struck oil on land that was open to us all. How many people would rush back to their local saloon, stand on a podium and announce it to the hole town while offering up maps to the exact location? Granted this is an extreme comparison and things didn't exactly work that way, but fish are a resource that many people cherish, especially remote water brook trout. Maybe there is some selfishness mixed in with the desire to protect the resource at hand, but either way this shows a level of care and stewardship imo.

These ponds are places where you can't just park your truck, walk 20 ft to the shore or bank and start fishing. They take work to find, through trial and error, bushwhacking, fish-less trips etc.. If I put in all the work, I surely wouldn't post it on a public forum for others to piggyback off of. I was raised to know that with hard work comes reward. That reward is out there for everyone to discover if they work hard. Most people wouldn't even think of hiking to Pond X that sits 6 miles back in the woods unless someone tipped them off that there were fish in it, bc most don't want to put in all that effort if there is a possibility of the pond being void of fish.
people arent keeping coveted 20 acre ponds miles from a trail, not listed on any maps a secret
on a large fishing site they will delete your post and ban you if you mention specifics like oneida lake
yes people are trying to keep oneida lake a secret not some unnamed pond
other fishing site also deletes pictures with any backgrounds, as someone may recognize a tree and triangulate your position
i spent better part of the 80's.90's driving backroads looking for access and parking to various lakes, spent nights on the trail just looking for waterways
when i stopped in a diner or bar looking over my 20 yr old rand mcnally atlas people were more than welcome to help and offer information
not this self righteous BS i see from people today
get over yourself
some sites your not allowed to post dec webpages as they deem it has too many specifics
also the biggest complaint of spot burning comes after multiple wet weekends, first nice dry weekend and all of a sudden people complain of spot burn
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:12 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
people arent keeping coveted 20 acre ponds miles from a trail, not listed on any maps a secret
on a large fishing site they will delete your post and ban you if you mention specifics like oneida lake
yes people are trying to keep oneida lake a secret not some unnamed pond
other fishing site also deletes pictures with any backgrounds, as someone may recognize a tree and triangulate your position
i spent better part of the 80's.90's driving backroads looking for access and parking to various lakes, spent nights on the trail just looking for waterways
when i stopped in a diner or bar looking over my 20 yr old rand mcnally atlas people were more than welcome to help and offer information
not this self righteous BS i see from people today
get over yourself
some sites your not allowed to post dec webpages as they deem it has too many specifics
also the biggest complaint of spot burning comes after multiple wet weekends, first nice dry weekend and all of a sudden people complain of spot burn
I've had trouble following your counter argument in almost every post you've made. From what I did understand, you seem to be way off base. I really didn't want to get involved in this post because it really does drive me nuts.

when you talk about DEC site posting information etc... that is not anyone's point. there are some ponds that put out better quality fish than others. Once those bodies of water are left alone for a little bit, they do their thing. Once a few people get into quality fish, they begin forming the web of information, and within no time, that body of water is done. so the information a lot of people are referring to is information that extends beyond what is posted online by DEC.

As I stated earlier, I long for the days where I can spend time in my favorite spot before it was demolished by internet and word of mouth. Not just the fishing, but the garbage as well. Perhaps something that you love needs to be removed from your life before you understand the impact of people.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:43 AM   #39
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Is posting without punctuation or using capitals related to using a phone to write posts? In any case I find it makes for difficult, unpleasant reading. Is that just me?
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:31 PM   #40
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Pleased to see many eloquent responses here. I like to look at it also from a numbers perspective. If I may offer a couple anecdotes:

Last summer I was out exploring new territory and drove into an easy access brook trout pond. There were two parties fishing and between them they had kept a total of 30 ~8" brook trout. Those 8 inchers were clearly part of the previous fall's stocking effort as they were all uniform in color, size, and shape. The stocking data from DEC shows us that between 200-400 fish are typically stocked in this pond in any given year so for the sake of this exercise we'll say it gets 300/yr. So in one day, 10% of that pond's 1 yr-old year class was removed. If 9 other days like this occurred on said pond, 100% of that year class would be gone. This of course doesn't include attrition from natural causes of predation which shortens the time considerably. Judging by the fact that no larger individuals of the next year class were caught speaks to the likelihood of pressure having wiped out all the year classes older.

This spring I was on another easy access pond. A local gentleman volunteered that he already had 44 trout in his freezer from the pond since ice out which at the time was around 1 week having fished every day. Mostly small ones he said.

I mention these events so people are under no illusion as to the kind of fishermen who are out there. In the first story, one of the parties was poaching and its highly likely the latter one was too. Personally, I don't feel compelled to share specific locations on the internet for people like this to show up and ply their trade and those who do should reconsider.
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