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Paddling suggestions for 3 day trip in southern dacks

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  • Paddling suggestions for 3 day trip in southern dacks

    Hello Everyone,

    Hoping to get some suggestions on a paddle with two overnights somewhere in the southern end of the park. There will be 6-8 of us in 17' canoes. All have extensive back-country camping experience in all seasons (mainly hiking), a moderate amount of flatwater experience, and a few of us have done some class II and III rapids in kayaks. This is not to say we'll attempt any serious rapids in these large canoes with inexperienced members of our group, just that a few of us at least have some experience with whitewater to know what we can handle, and when to get out of the water.

    We're looking for a paddle in which we can camp on forest preserve land on 2 different nights, preferrably a point-to-point trip, though it doesn't have to be. I think our ideal trip would be 2 nights in something like Low's Lake/Bog River Flow, but I can't convice some of our party, who will be traveling from points much farther south, to spend another hour or two in the car.

    We can deal with a few rapids or falls if they can be portaged around, but we don't have the experience to paddle anything wild. Originally I was thinking of putting in on the West Branch of the Sacandaga at furthest point upstream on Rt 10, and over a 2 nights stay, paddling to a takeout just downstream of the confluence with the east branch, but it looks like the section of rapids and falls through the gorge will make it near impossible with our equipment and experience. Is it possible to portage around the length of the Gorge? Are the waters at all tamer downstream of the 5 waterfalls?

    Otherwise a trip involving a series of lakes and portages would be a good bet. We are a fit bunch and don't mind a few carrys. Just looking to see if anyone has any suggestions or favorites.

    Thanks in advance!

    Garlic Boy of Poconos, PA (Formerly Burnt Hills, NY)

  • #2
    Being from the Lehigh Valley PA area I have looked and asked about paddling places in the southern Adirondacks (Catskills too). I have also looked at maps and books but could never find anything that looked interesting.

    I've done 2 trips to Bog/Low's and the extra hour or two of driving are worth it.

    The only other option I can think of that is closer would be the Delaware Water Gap.

    My wife and I are making the 7&1/2 hour drive to Lila in a couple weeks. I know it'll be worth it but the long drive limits the amount of trips.
    Hopefully someone knows of something.
    If you get lost come straight back to camp.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Garlic Boy View Post
      Originally I was thinking of putting in on the West Branch of the Sacandaga at furthest point upstream on Rt 10, and over a 2 nights stay, paddling to a takeout just downstream of the confluence with the east branch, but it looks like the section of rapids and falls through the gorge will make it near impossible with our equipment and experience. Is it possible to portage around the length of the Gorge? Are the waters at all tamer downstream of the 5 waterfalls?
      You could take the W. Branch from near Shaker Place (on Rt 10 - room to park cars but it's a somewhat steep slope down from the road to the level area where you can launch) and end up in Good Luck Lake, camp there, and then from your campsite you could explore the area, several trails in & around the lake. Good Luck cliffs, Dry & Dexter Lakes, Spectacle Lake, etc. You could wheel your canoes to Spectacle I suppose, it's not that far but I haven't been on the trail recently to know how "wheelable" it really is.

      I believe that the gorge is REALLY tough to negotiate on foot, let alone portage with 17' canoes.
      sigpic

      Once a year, go some where you've never been before.

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      • #4
        I live in S Saratoga County and the better paddle camping options are a ride north and west. Non-summer, the power boat traffic does diminish making some larger lakes attractive for camping trips- but limited wilderness feel. This can include Indian, Blue, Forked and Raquette (and even Lake George).

        The Raquette river is an option for your group with a shuttle between 2 locations. With shuttle time however, you might be better off driving a bit further. Consider Little Tupper Lake and Round Lake in addition to Lila & Lows plus St. Regis canoe area.

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        • #5
          I hesitate to suggest this, but you did say you are a fit bunch.



          We tried for a through trip at just the wrong time, water was too low for the rapids and too cold to wade or line. Warm water, that is even lower could work in your favor, but the logistics of a car shuttle would be challenging.
          The short cut via Unknown is on a marked and sort of maintained trail, there are no other trails or paths, we're talking bushwhack with a boat for a hat.

          A more practical trip would be the upper/lower Jessup through to Indian Lake.
          You would have maybe a total of 5 or 6 miles on the Jessup, most of it very quiet and serene. Total trip is about 13 miles, with an 8 mile car shuttle, much of it on dirt roads. Along the way is Dug Mountain Brook falls. The river eventually widens to become Indian Lake. Once within the Indian Lakes Islands campground, north of the falls, you wouldn't be able to camp except at designated, for fee sites, that might require a reservation. But above that is fair game, as long as you camp within DEC regulations.

          The Jessup route might not need all the time you have allotted, but it could still be a quiet, relatively isolated experience, at least until you get to Indian.

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          • #6
            Hi all,

            Many thanks for all of the responses! I'll talk to the crew, and it may be hard to convince them to travel any further North. They just want to spend every minute they can in the outdoors and away from the car. Lows Lake and the Raquette are definitely on my list for the near future, but with one of our guys coming from Maryland, it's just a bit too far for this weekend. Those suggestions of the Jessup River or Cedar River sound great, I'll pitch it to them.

            Stripperguy - you're unknown pond - is this what is labeled on Google Maps as "Pine Lake"? See here -> https://goo.gl/maps/3RTBx That sounds like something we could handle, endurance-wise, although we may likely end up in the water even a few more times than you did with our paddling skills .

            kwc - We may well go with your suggestion depending on how everyone is feeling about some extra car time. It's close enough, and Goodluck seems pretty isolated. Your thoughts on the Gorge were what I expected. Might be better to explore this section on foot or with kayaks and more experience.

            Another question - does anyone know if it's possible to paddle up the Piseco Lake outflow? I was thinking we could take the Upper West branch of the Sacandaga to the confluence with the outflow and paddle upstream to Piseco, or do the trip in reverse. Just from looking at a topo it does not look like there are any major elevation changes either way.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Garlic Boy View Post

              Stripperguy - you're unknown pond - is this what is labeled on Google Maps as "Pine Lake"? See here -> https://goo.gl/maps/3RTBx That sounds like something we could handle, endurance-wise, although we may likely end up in the water even a few more times than you did with our paddling skills .


              Another question - does anyone know if it's possible to paddle up the Piseco Lake outflow? I was thinking we could take the Upper West branch of the Sacandaga to the confluence with the outflow and paddle upstream to Piseco, or do the trip in reverse. Just from looking at a topo it does not look like there are any major elevation changes either way.
              The "shortcut" that we took was through Unknown Pond, about 3 miles SW of Pine. We carried from the falls on the Cedar to Unknown, then paddled the beaver swollen outlet for a mile of so, then bushwhacked though the woods for a 1/4 mile or so back to the Cedar, and then we were stuck!! Pine Pond would have been an overnight stop, had we made it that far.

              I have an out of print guidebook for Hudson waters and all the tributaries, I'll check the descriptions of Piseco outlet. I know you could paddle from the outlet to Spy Lake.
              And there is an excellent guidebook, "Adirondack Canoe Waters: South and West Flow" I think it's written by Proskine...

              If you have access to detailed topo maps, study the drops in the river sections in question...more than 25 feet drop per mile will generally not be navigable, and a definite no on upstream travel. Even 10 to 15 feet drop per mile can be difficult upstream. If most of the drop is at a falls, or if there are many beaver dams, so much the better. Keep in mind that river topography is a dynamic thing...

              From Proskine:

              Below Shaker Place the river drops another 32 ft before confluence with Piseco Outlet. Piseco Outlet has a 6 ft drop (rise, for you) and several rapids to negotiate upstream.
              Last edited by stripperguy; 07-30-2015, 05:21 PM.

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              • #8
                I hesitate to explain this trip because it requires a 2-1/4 mile challenging carry midway. But this is my 30 mile trip in the southern Adirondacks. It is nice when the USGS gauge at Hope reads 2.0-2.5 ft, not any lower.

                Drop a vehicle at Duck Bay (Sacandaga River) along Rte 30 south of Speculator.

                Drive Route 8 west to Route 10. Start at Big Bay on Piseco outlet along Route 10. Paddle Big Bay and hit the elbow bend which might require lining in low water. Then paddle the length of Piseco Lake. Here are opportunities to camp if you want. Now go up Fall Stream thru Fall Lake and up into Vly Lake. Camp here. The next day is carry/rest day. You need to find the carry trail over to Fawn Lake. It is about 50 yards south of the southernmost campsite on Vly on the east side. This is a DIFFICULT carry. There are rock gardens to climb thru with a canoe on your back. Take it easy and it's a 3 hour carry. The trail (yes there is a trail) will drop you out onto the northeast shore of Fawn Lake. Spend the rest of the day and camp on Fawn.

                The next morning carry to Sacandaga Lake. There is a trail just south of the snowmobile bridge near Fawn. It will dump you out into Indian Bay on Sacandaga Lake. Cross Sac. Lake and take the outlet stream over to Lake Pleasant. Paddle down Pleasant and down the Sacandaga past the Kunjamuck to Duck Bay and take out.

                30 miles/3days. I call this a front-country trip as 1/2 of it is on water where motors are allowed. But there is more than enough wild country on this trip as well to keep one happy.
                Last edited by PaulK; 07-31-2015, 09:36 AM.

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                • #9
                  Another trip on the West Branch of Sac would be easier, but just as fun. The caveat to this trip is you want plenty of water in the Sac. When the Sac is low, it is a weedy, slimy paddle and not appealling really. When the USGS gauge at Hope reads 2.0ft, things are getting good.

                  I start down near Shaker Place where everyone traditionally takes out. Paddle upstream for an hour and when you are going around the lands of the old Avery deer yard, look for rock outcrops and campsites on the east side of the river. The next day, paddle to Trout Lake or Chub lake and camp there, or go further up into Good Luck Lake and camp. Either take out at the first bridge with a shuttle vehicle or paddle back downstream to wrap up your 3 days.

                  With enough water in the system, the West Branch is fun. No, it's not wilderness being close to Route 10, but most of the time you won't know you are anywhere near Route 10. Don't hesitate to enjoy the West Branch, but keep your eye on water levels. When the river is weedy, I don't like it.

                  Cheers!
                  Last edited by PaulK; 07-31-2015, 09:44 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PaulK View Post
                    Another trip on the West Branch of Sac would be easier, but just as fun. The caveat to this trip is you want plenty of water in the Sac. When the Sac is low, it is a weedy, slimy paddle and not appealling really. When the USGS gauge at Hope reads 2.0ft, things are getting good.

                    I start down near Shaker Place where everyone traditionally takes out. Paddle upstream for an hour and when you are going around the lands of the old Avery deer yard, look for rock outcrops and campsites on the east side of the river. The next day, paddle to Trout Lake or Chub lake and camp there, or go further up into Good Luck Lake and camp. Either take out at the first bridge with a shuttle vehicle or paddle back downstream to wrap up your 3 days.
                    Cheers!
                    I had forgotten all about Trout Lake (and Little Trout) ... there are two campsites, one on each side, on Trout Lake. If the water is low it can be difficult to find a navigable channel into Little Trout but it can be done (we've done it, and if we can, so can you!). There are a couple of loons on both small lakes.
                    Between the Trout Lake outlet and the Rt 10 bridge there has been a pretty large pile of dead trees and other debris blocking the river in the past couple of years. I haven't been on the West Branch this year so I don't know if it's still there ... perhaps it's gone now after the heavy June rains.
                    sigpic

                    Once a year, go some where you've never been before.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      PaulK - One question about your 30 mile trip. Instead of that long 2 1/4 mile carry, have you (or anyone else) tried paddling up the Willis Vly from Vly Lake to Fawn Lake? Just from looking satellite photos, it looks like it could be wide enough to get through, though maybe it's too shallow?.

                      Thanks again everyone for all of the great advice. I'm actually going to pick up a copy of the guide written by Proskine. It seems that a topo map can only get you so far...

                      I'll study in detail out the routes you all have suggested and run them by the crew. I'll let you know what we decide, and I'll be sure to post an account and photos here after the trip. We'll be out there from Aug. 15th - 17th.

                      Thanks again!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The West Branch, below Speculator is pretty bony with only one flat stretch.
                        You may be interested in the Kunjamuck Branch up to Elm lake.
                        A better 30 mile trip may be the Raquette from Long lake to Tupper with plenty of good campsites along the way.
                        It may be crowded at this time of year.
                        Jim

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kwc View Post
                          Between the Trout Lake outlet and the Rt 10 bridge there has been a pretty large pile of dead trees and other debris blocking the river in the past couple of years. I haven't been on the West Branch this year so I don't know if it's still there ... perhaps it's gone now after the heavy June rains.
                          As of May, the Sacandaga blockage was still there - gonna take more than a little rain to wash this out....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            more paddling northward

                            you can get more of a multi day trip on either long lake or indian lake. long lake has leanto's spaced thru out its shore,iv'e canoed it and camped about 5-6 times.some are large enough for a few tents as well,i usually try to get a start on friday so i am assured a spot . ther is the npt trail running alongside of it for day hikes into the interior. on indian lake during the summer season you will need reservations but if you wait till the fall camping on the islands is free dollar wise and people wise. i have done 2 trips along indian lake on both we saw just 2 other canoers.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Garlic Boy View Post
                              PaulK - One question about your 30 mile trip. Instead of that long 2 1/4 mile carry, have you (or anyone else) tried paddling up the Willis Vly from Vly Lake to Fawn Lake? Just from looking satellite photos, it looks like it could be wide enough to get through, though maybe it's too shallow?.

                              Thanks again everyone for all of the great advice. I'm actually going to pick up a copy of the guide written by Proskine. It seems that a topo map can only get you so far...

                              I'll study in detail out the routes you all have suggested and run them by the crew. I'll let you know what we decide, and I'll be sure to post an account and photos here after the trip. We'll be out there from Aug. 15th - 17th.

                              Thanks again!

                              A friend of mine with a hornbeck canoe had his eye on that paddle up Willis Vly. Never heard from him since, haha! In truth, no, I don't have any info on it.

                              Just to clarify here, the unmarked carry trail between Vly and Fawn is actually 1-3/4 mi. I checked my maps. It didn't get flatter tho since the last time I looked.

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