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-   -   Are the Great Fires of the ADK a thing of the Past? (http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=20665)

cityboy 09-10-2014 02:03 PM

I don't see "Fuel" as a problem either. I'm not sure how much of the forest make-up has changed since the early 1900's but I did read this:

"Adirondack Park contains the largest areas of original red pine and eastern white pine in the world and one of the largest areas of original forest in the United States".

So as far as tree species are concerned it might not have changed all that much but I'm no expert.

I think too that with the establishment of the Park and its discouragement of logging operations might also have allowed a buildup of potential fuel too.
The fact that no major fires since 1908 have occurred could indicate there is a growing source of fuel.

Again, just my opinion.

Vinegar 09-10-2014 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cityboy (Post 222010)
I think too that with the establishment of the Park and its discouragement of logging operations might also have allowed a buildup of potential fuel too.

Logging is alive and well in the park. Clear cutting millions of acres has been discouraged, yes, but not logging.

What type and how much "fuel" constitutes a dangerous scenario ("buildup")? How much of that is generated (a year, a decade, whatever) in fire prone areas of the park? Where are the fire prone areas of the park, for that matter? What events are likely to start a wildfire? What is the likelihood of those events occurring? What natural and artificial factors will affect a fire's spread? How will they affect the spread?

Ordin Aryguy 09-10-2014 03:31 PM

Unless knee deep in water, I haven't stood in a single place in the entire Adirondack park that that isn't positively ripe with fuel. Blow down is everywhere. The duff is often at least a foot thick. The canopy is a solid mass extending over many square miles.

If someone were to design a place that's more likely to have a large scale fire, they would have do nothing more than copy the ADK's.

The ADK's are a single drought away from a cleansing by fire.


Ordin

Cold River Bob 09-10-2014 04:45 PM

Ordin Aryguy You are right about the Blow downs etc. You take the pines buy Shattacks an the Calkins creek trail meet at the river.that the Micro burst blow over an are feet thick , an cover a good many acres, an as dry tinder an some carless hiker or a lightning strike. I hope I never see it but it is a matter of time.

redhawk 09-10-2014 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ordin Aryguy (Post 222016)
Unless knee deep in water, I haven't stood in a single place in the entire Adirondack park that that isn't positively ripe with fuel. Blow down is everywhere. The duff is often at least a foot thick. The canopy is a solid mass extending over many square miles.

If someone were to design a place that's more likely to have a large scale fire, they would have do nothing more than copy the ADK's.

The ADK's are a single drought away from a cleansing by fire.


Ordin

Yep!!

And probably unprepared to deal with it.

Justin 09-10-2014 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fvrwld (Post 221921)
Being a healthy and natural ecosystem doesn't necessarily mean that it is the best habitat for human play. I think also that we would have to go back to prior to our lifetime in order to see it in its natural state. Educate yourself as to what a healthy inland pitch pine - scrub oak barrens ecosystem (of which only 20 exist in the world) looks like and you then might see the improvement. A trip to the visitor center is a good start.

Ok thanks Val.
That whole parcel behind the Visitor Center is exactly where I was referring to, in between I90, 155, Rap Rd, and the railroad tracks.
I don't think I have to go quite that far back to remember what it was like then and how it is now. That little pond I used to fish at, and learned to bow hunt near is no longer there.
It just seems to me that things were never really the same after they started "managing" things and burning it up, which IIRC got out of control once or twice years ago. Some of the other areas of the Pine Bush that were never burned are doing just fine, and are basically the same as I remember them from when I was a kid.

mossarden 09-11-2014 09:23 AM

I learn so much from this forum...I was wondering about fires in the ADKs after that great recent fire tower map post ….

When I was a kid I remember visiting the tower on Prospect Mountain which was manned …The ranger had a little mule there…for transportation, I suppose….

The sparks from the old train engines, as mentioned, I’m sure were a major contributor to forest fires. I have a friend who lives near the train station in Riparious…and was always chuckling about the calamity of the old train engines that were used to facilitate the Riparious - North Creek tourist train. After a particularly dry spring in 2002 about 100 firefighters fought multiple brush fires one Sunday along those railroad tracks….. caused by the tourist train. The tourists on the train were treated to a scenic ride up to North Creek, then on the way back saw the woods burning on both sides of the track!

TEO 09-14-2014 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fvrwld (Post 221878)
Fire is crucial to the health of the Sequoia forest.

There are some ecosystems in the northeast that are fire-dependent. One of these is the Albany Pine Bush.

Let's be clear though, not all fires are the same. The trees, such as the Sequoia, that use fire to reproduce need small fires. The massive fires that we've seen relatively recently in Yellowstone, the Southwest, & in California, are way too hot, and completely overwhelm the trees' defenses.

There's a big difference, too, between blowdowns & duff, and logging slash.

cityboy 09-15-2014 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montcalm (Post 221866)
drought

I've found the following quote about Adirondack precipitation since the Great Fires.

"Since 1926, the Adirondacks received more precipitation in spring, summer, and fall, but significantly so only during the fall, as September, October, and November totals gained 0.5-0.9 inches. Of the monthly records, however, only August precipitation displayed a statistically significant increase during the last eight decades, the monthly total rising by approximately 1.19 inches."

The full report is here:

http://www.ajes.org/v15n2/stager2009.php


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