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#81 | |
**BANNED**
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Sand Lake, NY
Posts: 5,857
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Quote:
We are indeed still working on this matter. At this time we're waiting to hear back from our primary DEC contact (who was out of the office all last week so hasn't had time to reply). There's supposed to be public discussion on the matter of not just Duck Hole dam, but ALL backcountry dams in the ADK Park. It's only after that discussion that the DEC is going to move forward with their own budget to repair the dams. We're hoping to speed up that process a bit for Duck Hole and do some private fund raising for its restoration. We just recently got not-for-profit status so now we can be taken more seriously when applying for the various grants ear marked for historical projects. Once we get an update from the DEC we will make another announcement via the website (duckhole.backcountryheritage.com). It hasn't been updated since our last contact with the DEC in Fall ('06). |
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#82 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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Hey duckholes!!
Just kidding, (sorry if that's bad humor) I am new here, and not trying to tick anybody off, just want to throw my name into the hat for helping somehow with this ridiculous little issue. It seems like if they shut down one subway for a day, or gave just a day's toll money from one of the $10 toll bridges in NYC to the right organization, then duck hole could be preserved for at least another 75 years. I have not thought about Duck Hole in years. I woke up this morning, (Tuesday, 7/24/07) with an image in my mind. It was the view of Duck Hole and the Island from the Lean-To. I was there in probably July of 1989 or 1990. I got on the internet this morning seeking a picture of it and found some great pictures, along with this website. Duck hole is a place of legend to me. I have hiked and canoed all over the Adirondacks. I was active in Boy Scouts and attended summer camp in Brant Lake at Curtis S. Read Boy Scout Reservation. The High Adventure Camp, Summit Base, was kind of headed up by an older fella names Ken Smith and his wife (name has escaped me). I am not sure if Ken is even with us anymore. We all thought he was the coolest. He had been on trips/treks/expeditions all over the world. We had just been informed that our week-long hiking trek would be on the Northville-Placid Trail. To us, my scout-buddies and I, because we just wanted to go camping, it didn't really make a difference where we were going, until Ken Smith sat us down and spoke to us about the gift we had, because of the fact that we were going to pass through Duck Hole, the Rondeau Hermitage, and the land of Santa Clara Lumber. He gave a speech a few days earlier about the CCC and their extensive work in NYS as well, so we knew that they had done some work in that area. We already knew of his adventures and experiences, and when he spoke about duck hole, his eyes teared up. He told us that we would be going to one of the places on earth that he had never been, and that we should consider ourselves (10 or so scouts and 2 adults) privileged, if not graced by God. He told us about the numerous sets of circumstances that prevented him from reaching duck hole over the years. We took what Ken told us to heart. That place meant something to all of us even though none of us had ever been there. From the minute we got out of the van and unloaded our gear we all anticipated reaching Duck Hole. We hiked for days before arriving there. Our guide had planned so that we would have some lag time at Duck hole. We knew that we could relax upon arriving there. I remember coming up to the clearing. I remember seeing the mirror-like waters, and the island out there in the middle. There were Loons all over the place. My God, it was so beautiful. We swam to the island, explored around the shores, and had a great time there. Duck Hole has a special place in my heart as being a place that I can say I have been and know that there are so many that don't even know it exists. It is a little piece of Heaven up there, that's for sure. I will make it back there, I am making myself that promise today. I will take my wife and two boys there someday. I need to find a way to help make sure it is there when I am ready to go back. I am going to write to DEC Commissioner Sheehan, and Senator Little for starters. I live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana right now. Helping from 1500 miles away might prove a bit challenging, but I want to help, guys. Please let me know what I can do. |
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#83 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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I was snooping around the web a little for a reply to something Kevin told me about DEC feeling that Duck Hole is a Fiscal Nuisance in another thread (worth reading), and I came across some pictures.
![]() ![]() This is the website: http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/specialcolle...irondacks.html I am wondering if you guys have seen these, and if they are in fact the dam at duck hole. If they are, go with me here... It was repaired by the CCC. Other works of the CCC are listed on the National Registry of Historic Places (example: CCC Shelter, Pokagon State Park, Indiana) Can we get Duck Hole recognized as an Historic Place somehow? We need to get the DEC commissioner and The Senators out there for a night of peaceful September slumber in the lean-to, where they can be awoken by the loquacious, laughter-like call of the resident loons and have a cup of warm TANG while watching the sun rise over the gorgeous horizon. Then see if they still want to call it a NUISANCE!!!!!!
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JLK They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind -Tuscarora Proverb I've swam in Duck Hole, have you? |
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#84 | |
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
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Quote:
Yes it was repaired by the DEC. And if I'm not mistaken, Kevin or Gary or someone has looked into that national register possibility. Hawk
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"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson |
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#85 | |
**BANNED**
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Sand Lake, NY
Posts: 5,857
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Quote:
![]() I wanted to note a few things you raised: 1) The DEC has never used the exact terminology "fiscal nuisance". That was my summation of their general attitude surrounding this issue, and most backcountry structure issues (other dams, bridges, etc). They don't see these things as necessary. Not because they are/aren't for practical purposes, or even that their own policy does/doesn't allow for their maintence or replacement, but because they cost a lot of money to repair and/or replace. To them it's a burden to sink hundreds of thousands of dollars every 50-100 years into a particular backcountry structure. There's obviously a detachment issue at work here - 90% of the those who decide things like arbitrary lean-to distances from waterways and whether an important historical and habitat sustaining structure receives funding have also never visited these places. To them life operates on a series of statistical equations and little more. Fortunately for the rest of us life (ALL life) is worth much more than that. I wonder how much a human's life is worth if that dam suddenly gives and 3 people fishing downstream are killed. I bet from a purely economic standpoint they would be wishing they spent $1 million, because I'm sure the ensuing law suits will set them back a lot more. Especially now that this danger to human life and their inaction to protect it has been made public. There's a few bridges missing or in desperate need of repair in critical backcountry locations that have already (because of their condition or absense) trapped people caught in sudden rain storms, etc. Gary Dean has personally addressed this issue in his meetings with the DEC as far back as 2005 and they STILL haven't budged a single inch on what they intend to do about that problem either. As silly as this sounds, it's like they have their fingers in their ears screaming loudly "lalalala I can't hear you" expecting these problems to go away. If I had to guess, they're betting with human lives with a hope that the worse case scenerio never happens. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. 2) We have not formerly applied for any grants (yet). We have a volunteer who writes grants looking into it, and we'll need to nudge them as it's been a couple months since they had any news for us. Thanks for the reminder. 3) There's actually 2 dams at Duck Hole - the causeway is a dam-like structure that is also in disrepair, but not nearly as bad and based on its design/function it won't be due for any major work for quite some time. 4) That photo is awesome. Nice find! 5) I performed an update of the www.saveduckhole.com website. Last edited by Kevin; 07-28-2007 at 03:11 PM.. |
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#86 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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I akcnowledge that DEC never used that verbiage, and figured as much.
Yeah, that picture is pretty cool. I was thinking that if someone dug a little harder around the Biltmore School that we might find some more good information for our cause, from the standpoint of historical significance. We have will, so there IS a way. I think that possibly angling for a grant is not a bad idea. It would seem likely that we could find a list of potential grant funds and prioritize based on likelihood, then attack them with a(n) well-written letter(s). I'm game for that.
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JLK They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind -Tuscarora Proverb I've swam in Duck Hole, have you? |
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#87 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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I hope I'm not trying something that's already been attempted. I was looking for something else completely unrelated, and came across a link to National Register of Historic Places. Nominations for NRHP must come from State Officer of Historic Places. Here's the criteria for applying a place for acceptance:
http://nysparks.state.ny.us/shpo/reg...evaluation.htm *I was checking out Preservation League of NYS website [ http://www.preservenys.org/index.htm ] and realized that is probably one of the reasons why non-profit organization status is so important for this.
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JLK They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind -Tuscarora Proverb I've swam in Duck Hole, have you? |
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#88 | |
**BANNED**
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Sand Lake, NY
Posts: 5,857
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Quote:
![]() It was our grant writer who first planted the seed of getting incorporated. |
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#89 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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Someone please tell where we stand with the process of grabbing nonprofit status?
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JLK They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind -Tuscarora Proverb I've swam in Duck Hole, have you? |
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#90 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gary at Low's lake/Bog river flow
Posts: 1,767
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Quote:
to help the cause. ![]()
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The Wilderness Photography of Gary F. Dean facebook photography of Gary F. Dean It's Not A Map...It's a "To-Do" List! ![]() ![]() |
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#91 | |
Should I Jump?????????????
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tioga, PA
Posts: 356
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Quote:
So if the State cannot fund the Duck Hole project how much money do "WE" need to raise to put a dent in this project? Thanks, Adam |
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#92 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 58
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Awesome
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__________________
JLK They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind -Tuscarora Proverb I've swam in Duck Hole, have you? |
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#93 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gary at Low's lake/Bog river flow
Posts: 1,767
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Quote:
We need to solve the problems one at a time, and then take everything we've accumulated, and bring it to the table for the DEC. If we bring funds, skilled craftsman, knowledgeable people to engineer a crane, that makes the DEC's job much easier, and helps them to find it hard to say no... ![]()
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The Wilderness Photography of Gary F. Dean facebook photography of Gary F. Dean It's Not A Map...It's a "To-Do" List! ![]() ![]() |
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#94 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: saranac inn on the way to VT and UT
Posts: 10
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betty little has always supported the residents in their efforts to keep what little we have left, I am sure if anything can be done she will help..
everything changes, once there was no dam at all, once ther were no pike or bass here to eat the native fish, and oce i didn't have floodlights glaring across the lake at me, and once i thought "Arthur Itis" was a guy down in Keene...things change, entropy isn't what it used to be.
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if utica is upstate,whereinhell are we? :boozing: |
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#95 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 167
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FYI
DEC is adding bodies/regulations to their Dam Safety Section... http://www.dec.ny.gov/environmentdec/42014.html |
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#96 | |
**BANNED**
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Sand Lake, NY
Posts: 5,857
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Quote:
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#97 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 167
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They are taking a wide look at all dams in NYS, there is growing concern at the amount of low-level dams that are ageing silently with a lot of potential impact downstream.
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#98 |
spring fever
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester area
Posts: 2,239
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sounds like it will expand safety exemptions for small dams, and focus resources on large high risk dams. I'm assuming dams on state property will get more attention too.
Its a little scary to realize that there are currently only 3 state employees in charge of dam safety.
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He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams. |
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#99 |
Indian Mt.Club
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,674
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Has a fair size beaver dam break a few falls ago, washed out a couple of bridges stranding hunter vehicles.FP did a great job rebuilding the bridges,BTW. Will the state regulate beaver dams? That one was 15 ft tall and 500 yards long....t
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#100 |
Bob in the Sewards
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 465
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A couple of weeks ago the director of National Resources,Regional Director,Director of Fisheries, Operations Engineer , And Conservation officer Kevin Burns Flew into Duckhole to make see what shape the dam is in and to decide what to do about it,, That is all we know as of now
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