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Old 09-14-2020, 09:34 PM   #1
Crash
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Fish Creek Ponds Campground Draft UMP under review

I just noticed the Fish Creek Ponds Campground UMP is under review. They are accepting comments through October 2nd 2020. The Draft UMP can be found here:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/24466.html

I did not read it in detail but the thing that stood out the most to me when I glanced at is that the cost to replace 6 of the comfort stations would cost $900,000 each. Now this would include adding showers to the restrooms - but I question the cost benefit of this - as opposed to keeping the showers in the single shower house as they have now. I guess I am just money conscious.

Please read it and send in your comments! You can influence the final plan!

Last edited by Crash; 09-14-2020 at 09:46 PM.. Reason: Fix Link
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:51 AM   #2
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I just spend last weekend at Rollins Pond and was very annoyed that there is no parking at either end of the Floodwood Loop trail; I noticed that this UMP adds a PA at the Fish Creek end. I just don't like hiking 2 miles through a campground! I also noticed that they are extending internet access to Rollins Pond. I didn't know that there was internet access at Fish Creek. Is there? How do you access it (while in Fish Creek)?
Also, I noticed that they have a 50-mile radius map within which you can move firewood. I thought my Elizabethtown home was outside that circle, but it's not. What cautions should one observe when moving one's own wood?

Last edited by MTVhike; 09-15-2020 at 07:55 AM.. Reason: added firewood move question
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:43 AM   #3
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I also noticed that they are extending internet access to Rollins Pond. I didn't know that there was internet access at Fish Creek. Is there? How do you access it (while in Fish Creek)?
The UMP states that the internet access is for the campground only, not for the public.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:59 AM   #4
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(A quick correction for the OP - the cost shown for the comfort stations is $400,000 each.)

So I'm in favor of this - lots of people use this area (90,000 in 2019), and it's good to have appropriate facilities. But:

It will be interesting to see the actual costs. $400,000 is not bad for an 8 shower, 8 toilet facility. But remember the bathroom at Exit 18 was budgeted at $1,600,000 and actually came in at $16,000,000 (ten times the budget).

More interesting is this: Fish Creek is getting 6 very adequate bathroom facilities for 90,000 users. But the High Peaks region, with probably triple that number of users, gets ZERO bathroom facilities, and makes due with Portopotties provided by locals.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #5
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I stand corrected - they are $400K per bathroom. Must have got crossed with the $900K for the rebuilt roads. Sorry about that.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I just spend last weekend at Rollins Pond and was very annoyed that there is no parking at either end of the Floodwood Loop trail; I noticed that this UMP adds a PA at the Fish Creek end. I just don't like hiking 2 miles through a campground! I also noticed that they are extending internet access to Rollins Pond. I didn't know that there was internet access at Fish Creek. Is there? How do you access it (while in Fish Creek)?
Also, I noticed that they have a 50-mile radius map within which you can move firewood. I thought my Elizabethtown home was outside that circle, but it's not. What cautions should one observe when moving one's own wood?
In NY State, you need a self-issuing permit to transport firewood with proof of the point of origin, or proof that it's been treated (kiln dried). It's kind of silly because the permit is something you issue to yourself but it is nevertheless important. The consequences (ecological and economical) of invasive insects should any of them make it to the ADKs cannot be understated.

As I understand it, protocol should a ranger catch you without the permit or proof that the wood has been kiln dried is that they are to confiscate and immediately burn the wood.

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Old 09-16-2020, 04:37 AM   #7
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I could be wrong on this, but as I understand it, Fish Creek is one of the few campgrounds that actually generates net revenue for the state. Most state campgrounds are operated at a significant loss- in other words, they are subsidized (in some cases, fairly heavily).

General rule of thumb in the campground world is that you need somewhere between 200-250 sites before you can hope to turn a profit. This is why most private campgrounds focus on the RV crowd, and often rent sites for the entire season- it's the only way to make money.

I think the argument that the money could potentially be better spent elsewhere has merit, however.

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Old 09-16-2020, 08:14 AM   #8
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SB - yes, I noticed that after reading the UMP, which I hadn't read before.
DS - thanks for reminding me that I need a permit to move my own wood. My question was really are there kinds of wood which are more likely to cause a problem, such as ash or hemlock (which are known to be under attack in the ADKs). So, even with a permit, I wouldn't want to bring contaminated wood.

I did find it weird that the bathrooms at the Rollins Pond campground had signs prohibiting using their outlets for charging devices. I assume they provide them for razors (or hair dryers), which take more power than a cell phone charger!
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:09 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by DSettahr View Post
I could be wrong on this, but as I understand it, Fish Creek is one of the few campgrounds that actually generates net revenue for the state. Most state campgrounds are operated at a significant loss- in other words, they are subsidized (in some cases, fairly heavily).

General rule of thumb in the campground world is that you need somewhere between 200-250 sites before you can hope to turn a profit. This is why most private campgrounds focus on the RV crowd, and often rent sites for the entire season- it's the only way to make money.

I think the argument that the money could potentially be better spent elsewhere has merit, however.

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I thought this was the case as well.

In terms of funds appropriation, they'd probably be top of the list for my vote. The campground is not in bad condition though, as it stands...
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
...

I did find it weird that the bathrooms at the Rollins Pond campground had signs prohibiting using their outlets for charging devices. I assume they provide them for razors (or hair dryers), which take more power than a cell phone charger!
I would assume that it's not the power consumption, but the inconvenience for others when a few individuals tie up the outlets for hours and hours.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:59 PM   #11
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I finally looked through the whole project. I'm not opposed to any of it, really. Perhaps they have overload at the shower facility on holidays - not sure, never stayed here (only the sister campground).

It is certainly more conservative than the Hinckley project, and for a campground that already generates 3/4 million a year. Seems reasonable to me.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:49 PM   #12
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The newer showers/bathrooms are much better at the campgrounds that have them. Just ask my wife!
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