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Old 09-24-2020, 09:23 AM   #21
snav3
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2 & 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderfoot View Post
So my question:
  1. Irresponsible storage of food in open
  2. Bear bag
  3. Outlaw canister (BV450?)
  4. Properly approved cannister
I have used a Garcia keg in the High Peaks and also down in N Georgia where there were some problem bears. I also own a size keg for shorter trips (similar to a Garcia, but different manufacturer).

Over the years I have had a much bigger problem with acrobatic little rodents than I have with bears. I recently purchased an Ursack Minor Critter bag and had great success with it on thru hikes of the CL50 and NPT.
I use this hang method:
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:43 AM   #22
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Another way....
I have been teaching and using the Marrison Bear haul system for many years with great success. Being a pulley type system (using carabiners as near frictionless pulleys with smooth nylon rope), it makes hauling up especially heavy Boy Scout loads on the first night or two relatively easy. I do not use white rope (have heard that some bears have learned what a white rope means).
From: https://www.princeton.edu/~oa/training/bearbag.html
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:20 PM   #23
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I had a mouse attack on my food bag way back in 2010, on my second Adirondack camping trip. On all ensuing trips I have had a metal jar lid about 3" in diameter on my paracord, I punched a hole in the center of the lid and tied a knot that goes right below the lid and holds it a foot or so above my bag. A mouse isn't able to climb around the lid since it tips freely on the paracord and is too hard and slippery for them to grab onto. I haven't had any animal problems since. I've never been in a place where canisters were required, but someday I hope to visit some of those places and then I'll have to get a canister.
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:27 PM   #24
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The marrison system (or another block&tackle) combined with the two tree hang works well and doesnot require the "perfect branch".
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:42 PM   #25
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The marrison system (or another block&tackle) combined with the two tree hang works well and doesnot require the "perfect branch".
Right, it is usually difficult enough to find a single acceptable tree and supportive enough branch, much less two at a reasonable distance from one another as required for the other method. During the guide training exercise that I instruct, my students have lobbed and got stuck all manner of sticks, water bottles, shoes rocks and everything else in crotches of trees in futile attempts. It often ends up as a comical humerous event on the first night of evaluation for all as the "trip leader of the day" student jock who is being evaluated tries to throw baseball style overhand when underhand usually works the best to get the weighted rope over a perfect branch. Duck!
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:25 PM   #26
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I've found throwing like a bolas to be the most effective, yet dangerous method. Be sure everyone else is clear and don't knock yourself out.

If you get the perfect release you can hit some crazy high branches with ease.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:11 PM   #27
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I've found that the key to successful throwing is making sure the rope is not tangled so it will fly up after the rock nicely, and finding a rock that will not slide out of the rope. I've always been able to find a good branch, but sometimes I've had to wander around for a bit first.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:30 PM   #28
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A friend of mine who is a fellow guide instructor thought he had a perfect solution to throwing a rope over a branch. He had a slingshot with fishing line attached to a larger rope, and a steel washer tied to the end of the line. He fired the washer at the branch, only to have it run out of line and the monofilament acted like a spring to launch the washer straight back to where it came from with great velocity. Of course it struck my friend directly in his forehead before he could duck, leaving a large mark. So much for a good idea. I remind him of it from time to time.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:09 PM   #29
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I've found that the key to successful throwing is making sure the rope is not tangled so it will fly up after the rock nicely
This is key - take the time to unfurl it and make sure it won't hand up on anything - It usually catches on my hand or some other part of my body though

I simply put a rock in a small stuff sack that I use for my stove, then tie the drawstring to my hang rope. Works great.

I'll actually admit there have been times though where I've had trouble finding a rock that was the right size. In some areas it seems to be pebbles or bowling balls, and a billiard ball size, which is about perfect, is a rarity.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:18 PM   #30
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My preference is for a rock that's at least twice as long as it is wide, so I can tie the rope directly around it without it slipping off too easily. Also I have found that rough or bumpy rocks are better than smooth ones, for the same reason. The bag idea sounds good too, but I'm a little too primitive for that, I guess.
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Old 09-24-2020, 11:04 PM   #31
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bags have a tendency to get caught in branches, a rock by itself is less prone.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:21 AM   #32
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Quote:
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bags have a tendency to get caught in branches, a rock by itself is less prone.
I have seen (and used) a Nalgene bottle as a throw weight. Partially filled is better than full. Stand back away from the reverse swing. I have also seen one smash on a rock on the downward drop.

A L2R guy I know uses one of these:
https://www.weaverarborist.com/catal...UaAmDNEALw_wcB

warning: this device causes cancer in California.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:33 AM   #33
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I use a pretty small bag like the one in the link (not quite that small), but with a heavy enough rock it doesn't get stuck.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:49 AM   #34
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Thanks for the walk down memory lane - rock popping back to forehead, rock stuck in tree, gear used as weight stuck in tree, rockless landscape, gear used as weight broken on return impact, missing branch, branch snapping, rock/stick detaching from throw line, evergreen trees only...

Anyone know how far from trailhead Uber Eats will deliver? ;<)

PS Have not tried the two tree no branch trick. Will rig a Marrison and test. May invest in Garcia and deal with extra weight.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:42 AM   #35
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You could invest in a dog... I'm pretty sure with a dog you could keep your food on the ground and nothing will bother it, but don't hold me to that.
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:46 AM   #36
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I treat it like campfires - mandatory bear container and no campfires in the eastern High Peaks...I do the opposite in the western High Peaks - I know campfires are allowed...I also assume the regulations are less restrictive when it comes to bear cannisters in the western High Peaks...and if not I'll play stupid...hanging food properly keeps your food away from bears.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderfoot View Post
So my question:
  1. Irresponsible storage of food in open
  2. Bear bag
  3. Outlaw canister (BV450?)
  4. Properly approved cannister

I would think #4 of course is best. But #3 is better than #1 or #2? Like I am sort of ok with using a canister throughout the Adirondacks just to keep the vermin at bay but am whining a bit about size and weight. Solution may be those handy canister bags you can strap to outside of pack and remove when stashing.
I'd say 4 is best, but 3 is definitely better than #1. Even if you don't call in a bear with #1, maybe you will for the next person. And when you say "outlaw canister", I'm not sure if that's true for all of the Adirondacks or just for the High Peaks, so I would recommend checking on that.
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Old 09-26-2020, 05:44 AM   #38
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currently there is no approved canister by regulation; only that it is a commercial hard sided. The BV is not recommended, but that is as far as the DEC can go by law.
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Old 09-26-2020, 07:45 AM   #39
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currently there is no approved canister by regulation; only that it is a commercial hard sided. The BV is not recommended, but that is as far as the DEC can go by law.
Government agencies are not allowed to specifically promote any one commercial product over any other. When I work for NYSDHSES (homeland security) to instruct land navigation, I am allowed to display and describe the books and compasses that I personally use, but am not supposed to outwardly recommend or promote any one product over another. When I took the swift water rescue training course and asked for equipment recommendations (PFD, dry suit, etc.), I could only determine which one I should get for myself by observing what brands and models are most used by the instructors.

During my engineering time as a government employee, contract proposal evaluation was a large part of my job. Proposed products from contractors were rated and scored under specific independent guidelines (developed by the engineering team), but not necessarily against one another.
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Old 09-26-2020, 10:42 AM   #40
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True, but an agency (or legislature) can and do. They do not use names, but instead write the regulations in such a manner to exclude certain brands while promoting others.
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