Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Skiing in the Adirondacks
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-16-2021, 08:51 PM   #1
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Ultimate ADK BC ski?



Voile Objective BC.

I have no idea actually, I've yet to ski them in the Adirondacks but using them for a number of steeper areas in western NY I've found them pretty remarkable as a DH ski. They are super light, fairly narrow and plenty rockered.

They are a tad slow for touring, I'll say that. If you really don't have any kind of challenging descent they probably aren't worth it, but if you have a long or challenging descent, even on a trail, these suckers can pin turns even with modest boots and bindings. I'd guess they'd do real nice as a trail ski in the HPW. Or if you are breaking through deep snow - at that point they become fairly nice, but not as good as a more traditional ski design, even on a wider platform.

Pluses:
  • Super light for the width. 115/82/99, 5lbs per pair in 178cm.
  • Wide enough for great turns in most east coast pow. And other BC conditions.
  • Waxless base that climbs really well in almost all snow.
  • Reasonably stiff and stable, especially for the weight.
  • Ample tip rocker keeps the tips up in deep snow even skiing forward and aggressive on the skis.
  • Made in USA.

Negatives:
  • Only available in limited sizes. Longest size of 178cm is a quick turner but on the short side for tall/heavy skiers.
  • Really expensive.
  • Not recommended for Tele mount. I have mine mounted with a 4 hole plate and only ski them with light boots and in soft snow. With big boots and hard skiing people have pulled bindings out.
  • Poor glide. The combo of rocker, low camber and stiff, damped layup makes these feel really dead touring. Also the scales don't slide all that well. For climbing and descending, you don't notice it so much. Flatter sections are a drag though.
  • Wide, low tips don't break trail as well as traditional tips. Wide shovels and dh shape profile can make for an awkward stride.

I mainly use mine for climbing and descending doing laps. But I also found them so nimble on single track trails, especially descending and climbing, they may be better/more fun for some skiers on trails.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 09:50 AM   #2
Fisheater
Member
 
Fisheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Land of Lakes, Headwaters of Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 60
I ski an Åsnes Tindan 86, as my “fat ski”. It’s waxable, so no scale drag, it’s also available in a 187. It is a bit stiffer with a poplar core instead of paulownia. I can get kick and glide in soft snow. I look at it as a deeper snow touring ski with a goal of downhill turning.
Fisheater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 08:19 PM   #3
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Interesting ski. A bit heavier, even in a 176.

I have wax skis, and I don't use them as much TBH. These climb really well - surprisingly well. I prefer not to use skins, if I can avoid it.

When the snow is right, I do really like my Asnes Ingstads.



I really haven't used the skins or the skin attachment. The edges were way too sharp and grabby at first, but much better now. They are a decent, all-around BC XC ski. They do tour really nice. They have a certain smoothness to the camber that most other skis don't have. It translates into a really good kick and glide. I wouldn't really ski them on anything too steep though - unless it's really wide open and not too firm.

Just a comparison, those skis weigh a 1 lb more per pair than the Objectives... and those are light skis (for a 200cm).
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 09:52 PM   #4
Fisheater
Member
 
Fisheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Land of Lakes, Headwaters of Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 60
Nice taste in skis Montcalm. That is not the current version of the Ingstad, however the military version of that ski is still sold the Åsnes NATO Combat ski. The NATO durability requirements make for a somewhat heavier ski.
I’m not a big scale guy, I think they have their place in warm snow, but in the cold snow I’ve been skiing in the last month and a half you can’t beat wax. I admit warm snow is not easy peasy like cold snow, however I still prefer wax, or even klister.
That Objective sure is a nice ski, if they made them longer I probably would have one.
Fisheater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 11:01 PM   #5
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
I think the short length is nice. It makes them a really great woods ski. Again, to me, it’s a ski for going up and down steeper terrain. For more rolling, mellow tours it is way overkill.

I guess my thought with the OP is it’s just a really versatile ski that even a relatively novice skier will be able to ski a lot with. It’s no fuss, it excels at trailbreaking and it descends like a demon. A Nordic skier would find them too slow. A slide skier would probably find them too narrow and light. But they could definitely do it all.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2021, 09:32 AM   #6
Fisheater
Member
 
Fisheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Land of Lakes, Headwaters of Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 60
I agree Montcalm. I was only discussing subtle differences. You’re spot on.
Fisheater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 03:05 PM   #7
MrKawfey
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 202
Here's my submission. For me it's as much about the binding system as the skis. I love these Fischer S-Bound skis, but the Silvretta bindings make it the do-all of my dreams.

I don't have much experience with competing binding systems, but I can say that the stride is MUCH more comfortable than my Fritschi Freeride bindings. As for heel locked and downhill, the Fritschi is certainly more rigid, but not enough difference to matter.

All of the boots in this picture work with these bindings. Most rigid on the left least on the right. The Scarpa denali's and the Asolo plastic shell mountaineering boots have the most hours on my feet. There is really no need to pair the downhill atomic boots with this setup as the denali's are close enough but weigh so much less.

The two softboots on the end are Bates bora bora and Salewa. For skiing the Bates win hands down, but the eyelets broke and I have not been able to get them fixed anywhere. The Salewa's are nice because the sole can be switched from locked to flex with an allen key. Makes no difference in the bindings, but when walking it's much more comfortable.

The one thing all these boots have in common is that they are made for my really wide feet. Except for the Scarpas which I have punched out quite a bit.

The skis are the Fischer S-bound 112 and here are the specs
Dimensions: 112-78-95 mm
Lengths available: 159, 169, 179, 189 cm
Weight: 2690 g (5 lbs. 15 oz.) / 179cm pair

These have a negative fish scale pattern. I've only once tried another pair with a positive pattern, and only for a few hundred feet at a resort. In those conditions, the positive pattern was noticeably better than the negative.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PXL_20220118_184356746.jpg (127.3 KB, 109 views)
MrKawfey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 03:12 PM   #8
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
I used to have a pair of S-98s but I upgraded those to the ski in the OP.

Why? I dunno - as much as I like those 98s, I felt like they didn't really excel at any one thing - too generalized. I find a better balance with a long, relatively narrow ski for XC touring and a short, modern Alpine ski for descending.

Nothing wrong with those Fischers - for the money they are hard to beat. Voiles are twice as much.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 05:02 PM   #9
TCD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,998
I ski the Madshus Annum. 165cm, 109-78-95.

Love the fish scales and the metal edges; and they turn very easily.

I ski them short because I like to turn in tight woods, and I am not interested in speed.

I have them set up with Voile Switchback bindings, which switch from free pivoting to tele.

I made glue free "clip-skins" for these. Great backcountry set up!
TCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:23 PM   #10
MrKawfey
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 202
Couldn't agree more about the mermaid paradox. These skis are really generalist and don't excel at anything. But... while you can bring a second set of boots (at least I can ), you can really only bring one set of skis.

So, do you struggle mightily on the uphill (as I used to with my k2 resort skis, alpine trekkers and downhill boots) so you have amazing turns without being afraid for your life. Or do you glide up with half the energy on skinny sticks only to panic all the way down with survival skiing.

Or, do you split the difference. Mediocre touring, mediocre turns.

Regardless of brand, I do think a lightweight, waxless base, wider parabolic bc ski is probably the best solution for the ADKs and a lot of the north east.
MrKawfey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:27 PM   #11
MrKawfey
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 202
Also, fwiw, I've heard many people in the forum rave about the Voile Vector BC. Not sure how it compares, just sharing.

Also, fwiw, I ski the 169s. Much shorter than my resort skis.
MrKawfey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:34 PM   #12
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKawfey View Post
Also, fwiw, I've heard many people in the forum rave about the Voile Vector BC. Not sure how it compares, just sharing.

Also, fwiw, I ski the 169s. Much shorter than my resort skis.
I think like the older Vectors just a tad narrow and a lot lighter. The new Vectors are pretty big skis.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:30 PM   #13
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Boots are a big difference. I've never carried two pair, but man there's a difference between my leathers and my T2s. Leathers are great for climbing and I can manage them in easy snow, but T2s I can ski pretty much anything, with a large walking penalty.

TCD - you should check out some Voiles when your Annums wear out. For tight stuff, these are the best skis I've ever used. Also the shortest I ski at 178, and with rocker probably <170 effectively. They do pretty well in the woods. I really want to try these on some High Peaks ski trails as well. For steep trails, I don't think I could find a better ski.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 09:23 PM   #14
MrKawfey
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 202
What do you guys use on your "waxless" bases? So far I've only used glide wax on the non-patterned part.
MrKawfey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 09:27 PM   #15
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
With the Fischers, as you can see, the scale section is a different material. It won't really take any wax, it has a super small pores/high density and it's very, very hard (relatively). You can rub a little paste on there, but I think it just rubs right off. I think all you need to do is hot wax the tips and tails on those.

Last edited by montcalm; 01-18-2022 at 10:47 PM..
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 11:11 AM   #16
Fisheater
Member
 
Fisheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Land of Lakes, Headwaters of Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 60
I own a pair of S-112, not my favorite ski, but I spent plenty of miles on them. They are easily hot waxed with glide wax just as you would wax an alpine ski. The only difference is to have a sheet of paper towel at the ready. While the wax is still liquid, give a wipe to the scales.
I found that this method offered better overall glide, prevented snow sticking well, and did not cause a reduction in grip.
I am currently not skiing any waxless skis. However quite a few guys on Telemark Talk are using polar Nordic kick wax as a glide wax. They report it also improves grip on scales. I do use polar grip wax as my glide wax on all my waxable skis. I believe using Swix Polar as my glide wax, I get better performance from my grip (kick) wax, and I get excellent glide. Well unless the temperature drops into the range where Polar would be an effective kick wax, which is single digits. At those temperatures I scrape tips and tails, and nylon brush the base.
Fisheater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 06:53 PM   #17
MrKawfey
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 202
Yup, that's exactly what I have done so far. I hot wax the tips and tails at the beginning of the year and rub on some glide wax when I go out. So far I have not experimented with any kick wax.

I'm a real novice when it comes to waxes. Of course I would love to get something that glides forward better but also helps climb better. You know, like magic.

These skis glide just ok, and they climb just ok, but given a choice, I think delaying the point at which I have to put the skins on would be preferable even if the glide suffered a bit.
MrKawfey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 07:49 PM   #18
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Those skis actually climb and glide pretty good as far as waxless skis go. There are better ones (like the ones in the OP) but they suffer from (lack of) glide. Those feel like XC race skis compared to the Voiles.

I think it really comes down to your objective (pun intended ). If you are mainly breaking freshies and/or climbing and descending, you'll be better served by a ski like the Objective, or any true Alpine camber + rocker setup with scales. If you want to do long tours that don't have many technical sections - think intermediate to advanced XC skiing, then there are better options.

Personally, I just carry kicker skins most of the time as they give me enough extra grip not to get stuck down in a gully somewhere, but I try to avoid using them. If I can just use the scales and do a little zig-zagging, this is my preference. It usually works out about the same in terms of time meaning I go a little faster on the lower angle than a more direct route (if you're super fit, way better to go straight up) but mainly to avoid fussing with skins.

Generally for XCD I'm dealing with runs of 100-300' vert, so not huge. That's why I prefer less dinking around between going up and down. If I was climbing 2000', I'd probably just put the skins on and suffer for one big up, as the climbing ability from skins is unmatched.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 08:08 PM   #19
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
Some more experiences from the S Bounds:

- I used these on some pretty long XC tours when I was breaking trail. They were great for this, plus any hill I descended I could make pretty reliable turns.

- I used them for skiing sledding hills to glades. They were great for this as long things weren't too firm. Firm snow or ice, they don't work well at all. I started to struggle a bit with them in steeper glades - some lack of technique here, but they were a little more resistant to coming around that I would have liked.

- I always skied these with leather boots. With a light plastic boot, you could probably push the DH performance a bit more.

- The XC trails I used these on in the Adirondacks were rated as "intermediate" by the DEC like the Hudson River loop, they were great. I could ski stuff like this with either a longer XC ski, or these S Bounds, but the S Bounds do a little better when you're breaking trail and are more fun and reliable descending.

Bottom line - they are a versatile ski but I wouldn't push them to lift served and when skiing on packed trails they show their weakness in touring.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 08:47 PM   #20
montcalm
Member
 
montcalm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,279
I also tried the S Bounds with a couple different binding setups.

I started off with 3 pins just flat mounted on the ski. That was fine.

I then got curious about how these might be with NNN-BC so I mounted them up:



I skied them like this for a bit, but what I found was there was really nothing to gain. They didn't tour any better with NNN-BC and they were similar on the DH provided the boots were similar. I decided those NNN-BC bindings would be better off on another set of skis, so off they came again.

I then mounted the same bindings I had originally but used a medium riser. I mainly did this so I could remount on the same fore/aft position as they were previously but I wound up really liking this the best. The riser really had no detrimental impact on touring (for my style) but it did make the skis a little more responsive.




On my Objectives, I decided to add the cable binding, so I used Voile 3 pin cable "traverse" binding - basically that riser setup above but with a cable option. I don't use the cables much, but I like them when I do. I have this setup on my old Tuas and I like it a lot.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.