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Old 01-27-2007, 02:40 PM   #1
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What is a good kayak to get...

if I wanted ample room to store gear and food for multi-day wilderness trips over water?

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Old 01-27-2007, 02:45 PM   #2
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if I wanted ample room to store gear and food for multi-day wilderness trips over water?

It's called a canoe!!

In most cases for multi day trips and assuming you might be portaging as well as carrying a lot of gear, and assuming you will doing some rivers and not just a lake, a canoe will suit you much better.

to carry a lot of gear in a kayak, you are going to need a large touring kayak. They tend to be heavy and although they are great on lakes for bearing a straight course, they're a bitch to maneuver quickly on a river or creek and sometimes difficult to get around narrow spots.

You might want to look into some of the canoes that have decks as a compromise, but I would still tend to use a canoe instead of a kayak.

Kevin and Val have touring kayaks and they can carry a lot of gear in them, which I can't, but on rivers like the Kunjamuk I can leave them in the dust as well as handle mild rapids easier with my Acadia Sundance 10.5 foot kayak. They now have a couple of smaller, wider yaks for the rivers, but can't haul anywhere near the amount of gear their touring yaks do.

However, if all your paddling is going to be on a large lake and you won't need to maneuver quickly or portage, then one of the 17' touring kayaks with hatches and maybe even a rudder will be the perfect choice.
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:23 PM   #3
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Let's say I wanted to explore the Oswegatchie in the Five Ponds, as well as Long Lake to the Raquette River to Tupper Lake, as well as the Cedar River Flow to the Carry Leanto: would a canoe still be the best choice in your opinion?

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Old 01-27-2007, 07:03 PM   #4
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Let's say I wanted to explore the Oswegatchie in the Five Ponds, as well as Long Lake to the Raquette River to Tupper Lake, as well as the Cedar River Flow to the Carry Leanto: would a canoe still be the best choice in your opinion?
I would opt for a canoe in those cases.

Kayaks are nice and I love mine but whenever I am going to haul gear or have to carry, I prefer a canoe.

Only place I might opt for a kayak if i didn't have a lot of gear would be the cedar river flow.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:09 PM   #5
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Let's say I wanted to explore the Oswegatchie in the Five Ponds, as well as Long Lake to the Raquette River to Tupper Lake, as well as the Cedar River Flow to the Carry Leanto: would a canoe still be the best choice in your opinion?

Rent a kayak, take it on a moderately long portage, like you will have to do on your proposed routes. You'll be cursing at how awkwerd and heavy it is to carry very far. While it can be done with a kayak, a canoe is far better suited for what you want to do.
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Old 01-28-2007, 11:49 AM   #6
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I might be making a bad assumption here, but if you're thinking about a kayak because of the belief that they might be lighter, compare the actual weights of canoes and kayaks. In many cases a canoe of the same length as a kayak will actually weigh far less and will have a carrying capacity at least 10 times greater.

Take all of this with a huge grain of salt, because I don't own a kayak. I've considered getting one, but haven't because of the very reason I stated. If I were solo camping more than I do now, with minimal gear, I'd think much harder on getting a kayak simply because they are more easily paddled while solo'ing. Even then, I'd likely opt for a solo canoe and a double-bladed paddle.

FWIW, I've solo'd my 17' Old Town battleship full of gear, not up the Oswegatchie, rather on stillwater lakes and ponds. So even big, beastly boats can be solo'd successfully in some circumstances.


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Old 01-28-2007, 02:04 PM   #7
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Weight wise
my 14 foot kevlar canoe weighs in at 32 pounds
my 10.5 foot kayak is 39 pounds
my future 10.5 foot kevlar Hornbeck canoe will be 16 pounds

Capacity, the 14 foot canoe wins hands down of course.
I can pack the kayak for a weekend if I'm careful. Well not that careful really, but with luxury items like good pads etc I have to pack between mylegs so I'm taking my legs in and out to uncramp them as I paddle. A small price to pay sometimes.
The kayak is too heavy for me to portage other than very short distances and then I'd prefer to drag it anyway if possible.I find it cumbersome to carry over my head. The canoe has been portaged with my son for a couple of miles and I would suspect if I got some padding on the yoke (it's unpadded wood) I could take it myself for a portion of that distance.
The Hornbeck will make life easier and more enjoyable when going without my son.

I should add that my brother has 14 foot Perception kayaks that he uses to island camp off the coast of Maine. They paddle beautifully and I've used one of them in the ocean but not to camp. Locally he prefers big water, like Lake George.
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:51 PM   #8
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I too am considering a kayak for fishing and maybe a weekend trip or such....

From what I've read a Sit on Top model will carry the most gear, and allow me to get in and out with ease to stop and shore fish. I know that the majority of responders have issues with portaging kayaks....

I've seen fold away aluminum wheels / carts for kayaks. Would this make short portages easier? Or are they more trouble then they are worth?
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Old 01-28-2007, 05:32 PM   #9
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I too am considering a kayak for fishing and maybe a weekend trip or such....

From what I've read a Sit on Top model will carry the most gear, and allow me to get in and out with ease to stop and shore fish. I know that the majority of responders have issues with portaging kayaks....

I've seen fold away aluminum wheels / carts for kayaks. Would this make short portages easier? Or are they more trouble then they are worth?
Don't be turned off by what some of us (incuding me) say regarding kayaks vs canoes. If you don't need to carry more than a few hundred yards, and are staying on the same body of water, a kayak is fine. If you need to carry very far or very much gear, a canoe is better suited. Portage wheels are worthwhile and work very well for either canoe or kayak as long as the trail is relatively flat, smooth and wide. if the trail is at all rough (ocassional roots and/or rocks) or not wide enough for the wheels, you will very soon have discouraging experiences.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:46 AM   #10
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....From what I've read a Sit on Top model will carry the most gear, and allow me to get in and out with ease to stop and shore fish. I know that the majority of responders have issues with portaging kayaks....
Don't forget - with a SOT the leeches can get to you easier!
(just kidding... some folks have phobias about spiders or dark, tight places in the earth, I have one about leeches!)

SOT will expose you to the water more, which may be fine on a sunny day in mid-summer, but can have a downside at other times. As a user of both modes of transport, where multiple carries are involved I think its hard to beat a canoe.

Just my 2 cents...

amf
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Old 01-30-2007, 11:10 AM   #11
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Let's say I wanted to explore the Oswegatchie in the Five Ponds, as well as Long Lake to the Raquette River to Tupper Lake, as well as the Cedar River Flow to the Carry Leanto: would a canoe still be the best choice in your opinion?

If you have never done the Oswegatchie, beware of the meanders, you go in all directions repeatedly to get where you want.I think Redhawk is correct with the manuverabilty thing ,especially on the Oswegatchie in the FPW.One thing I like about using the canoe is the ability to carry FRESH FOOD in a small cooler, and ice for MARTINIIS, for up to 5 days...That would be hard in a kayak....now kayaking on the Salmon River above the Black Hole, well thats another thread./
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:16 PM   #12
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Let's say I wanted to explore the Oswegatchie in the Five Ponds, as well as Long Lake to the Raquette River to Tupper Lake, as well as the Cedar River Flow to the Carry Leanto: would a canoe still be the best choice in your opinion?

The Oswegatchie would be a pain in a kayak because of the beaver dams and blow downs. If you had a nice 16-17 foot sea/touring kayak the paddle portion of the LL/RR/TL trip would be ideal BUT the carry around the Raquette Falls would negate all benefits of the kayak. Cedar river flow doesn't have much wind so a canoe vs kayak is a wash.
If you want to paddle big lakes such as Stillwater Res., Lake Lila, Cranberry Lake, Low's Lake or up Long Lake and the Raquette and return then a touring kayak is the way to go. But IMO, if you are considering a kayak and comparing it to a canoe, then you want to get a nice composite touring boat no shorter than 16' and the lighter the better.
Northern Outfitters in Utica, NY www.northernoutfitters.net has a vast selection of touring boats and last I knew had a great sale on Nelo sea kayaks in carbon graphite/ composites.
what boats are you comparing ?
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Old 01-30-2007, 04:13 PM   #13
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Welcome Back Mike, sorry about the loss of your friend.

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Old 01-30-2007, 09:49 PM   #14
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Don't forget - with a SOT the leeches can get to you easier!
(just kidding... some folks have phobias about spiders or dark, tight places in the earth, I have one about leeches!)

amf
EEEWWWWW Leaches!!!

I honestly didn't even consider the elements on the SOT models. I was really hoping to expand my fishing trips earlier in the spring and later in the fall. I spend a lot of time in canoes while attending Paul Smith's and found them to be enjoyable.

I do have a really bad memory though, I got in a tandem canoe solo to fish and the wind picked up (like 30 mph gusts) kind of at random. It was pretty frustrating spinning around like that!!! Im also sure that the hangover didn't help matters much.

Would I have to worry about that in the smaller solo versions?
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:51 PM   #15
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I agree canoe. As far as Buckethead asking about wheels,save your money. I say they are more of a hassle than they are good. I tried them(hell, I'll sell you mine) and I would much rather throw the canoe on my shoulders, and this is from a guy who owns a heavy ass 12' aluminum Sportspal.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:55 AM   #16
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I grew up in a canoe but my husband and I bought two 14.5 ft. Percepton kayaks several years ago. We love them BUT if you want to go on a trip longer than a few days and you have more gear and supplies to bring (and a dog that you hate to leave at home) a canoe is the only way to go! We love our kayaks but we'd give them up before we gave up our canoe!
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:01 PM   #17
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I am jumping in on this late but here goes anyway.
I own two canoes, both heavy. One ABS and one aluminium (lighter, sort-of). One handles lots of gear well and the other doesn't. One I can stand in comfortably and fish out of and the other I can't.
I also own two kayaks. A sea kayak (Aquaterra) that is over 18 yrs old and new small 9 footer (Perception) suited well for little streams and calm water.
You can spend all kinds of money on a canoe that can't cross a big lake when the weather gets bad as you can do similar with a kayak that can't make a corner on a tight meandering adirondack vly.
I personally would go with a sea kayak. I have stuffed my hull full of gear as well as leaded two 70 lb packs on it's decks and still paddled comfortable and yes, even down that meandering 7' wide vly in 3" of water. Yet stuffed like that it's gets mighty scarey on a class II stream.
I'm not saying that "this" is the only way. I love to paddle my old canoe, 35+ yrs old, on small streams. It's great to haul bear anbd deer out with. IN a kayak it gets real tough!!!
There are pros and cons to both. Can you paddle a sea kayak down a class II-III stream? Absolutely.
Portability...the canoe wins in general

Ease of access to gear.....the canoe again

Stability.... some may offer a different opinion but the kayak wins.
Ability to handle a big lake wave.......a sea kayak followed by a mid length canoe. A small boat, kayak, canoe or dingy....blow on big waves and sometimes it's best to cut right across a 2 mile wide lake miday when other baots are churning it up than "ride" it's shores" for three times that distance.
Doing late fall trips? A kayak keeps you much warmer while paddling and you never need a dry gear storage bag. That is unless you happen to go topsy-turvey. LMBO It happens!!!! LIH!!!!
Generally a kayak is faster depending on the paddler. If time is ever a concern and it is in most modern lifestyles or unless retired it is, the yak wins.
You can sleep in canoe while on the water. Though possible to do in some sea kayaks, it's not easy, yet warmer!!!

Is there one magical boat? Nope. Everyone IMO needs several. Being on the water rocks!!!!!
Try some boats out. I will put my sea kayak on loan for a weekend.
I bet others here would do the same. It's tough to just have a one boat do all.
Drop me a PM if you want to give it a try as the weater gets warmer.
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