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Old 05-24-2021, 07:16 AM   #21
Tug Hill
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Just because the beaver were here before humans, doesn’t mean they didn’t have a negative impact on the ecosystem then.


All I know after nearly 60 years fishing and working , “studying,” with boots on the ground, in the core of the Tug Hill Plateau. It’s pretty obvious that the beaver have changed the water quality. Again in 1903 there were only 2 known beaver colonies in NY, so what controlled spring flood waters then ?

I invite everyone to come and drink the water out of the Salmon River and East Branch of Fish Creek watershed. Make sure you bring some Imodium.
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Old 05-24-2021, 09:38 AM   #22
montcalm
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Let's not conflate "here before humans", with "here before Europeans".

I don't know the archeological history of the beaver, but I'd guess they were here before humans. Not the period of time I'm interested in though...

We know humans showed up in this neck of the woods around 8000 years ago. Landscapes and species populations may have been much different then as well. Whatever.

Point being, humans existed with the beavers and "minimal" trapping i.e. pre-European levels of trapping. Both populations were a lot more dispersed than they are now. We have *some* evidence that fish populations were more widespread and abundant than they are now, or were in recent history.

I don't doubt your hypothesis that beavers have some impact on water quality - but we're making a lot of jumps around here going from Giardia to impact of trout populations.

I think it's clearly been shown though, that humans have the biggest impact on degrading water quality, and negatively impacting fish populations. What's changed since European settlement? Lots of humans - higher population densities. Lots of habitat loss - forcing beavers populations into smaller areas. Eradication of apex predators such as wolf and large cats.

If these mechanisms were in place, would the beaver's impact be as detrimental as it is today? That's all I'm questioning.

Also then extending that, will mechanisms i.e. the coyote population increase help to balance these smaller, island ecosystems with the beaver we see now and bring back fish populations*?


*Just anecdotally, "boots on the ground" my point of reference: I saw both beaver and coyote populations go from zero to very significant in about 30 years in parts of south western NY.
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:23 PM   #23
adkfishing
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Acid rain, introduction of non native species, destroying habitat, dams on lakes / rivers, logging, overfishing and a whole bunch of other human decisions greatly impacted brook trout throughout the Adirondacks.

Beavers or not I think humans are to blame for most of the issues.
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